Discussion for article #243155
But Putin so strong. Putin so decisive.
This is the shit that happens when there is a chaotic civil war with terrorist elements on the ground. You donāt bound into those situations because of the vast amount of unknowns.
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Goodā¦Both men are so unpredictable, the US is better out of it!
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āThis is their incident our focus is on ISILā
If the headline can punctuate this correctly, why canāt the story itself?
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I appreciate their firm donāt do stupid shit attitude. Imagine how the Repub admin would have reacted? Putin Putin Putin! Bomb bomb bomb!
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Putin is the Republican partyās hero
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What the fuck is this āmeasured tone and exhortation to peaceā shit?
BOMB, BOMBā¦SOMEONE!!
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Watching Mrs. Greenspan on MSNBC I get the feeling that Obama has been elected President of France.
Would a US imposed no-fly-zone include restrictions on Turkish jets?
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"This is Turkey and Russia. This is their incident, our focus is on ISIL,
(whistles optimistically, rolls eyes to ceiling)
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Again, it flies directly in the face of what they would say they would do.
Man, thereās a lot of this going aroundā¦
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Is it just me, or does anyone else think it odd that the first US reaction came from DoD and not the State Department?
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HEās GOT a MANLY Chest and wrestLES TIGErs.
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Amen to that. Some serious wistful thinking going on there.
The DoD doesnāt want to get involved. And from their perspective, this statement is largely correct (for now). State is going to be busy behind the scenes today, and until the get a handle on where everybody is at about this, there isnāt much they can say that doesnāt risk irritating the situation, one way or another.
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Isnāt Turkey a NATO country, and doesnāt the NATO charter consider an attack on one country an attack on all? Weāre getting dragged into this whether we like it or not.
These are the fruits of thug like actions. It puts all of us at risk depending on how things escalate.
The current online Putin Adoration Society is only too willing to ignore that Putin is a real life thug, aka really bad guy. In the movies, it is exciting for the bad guy to āsee the lightā (such as increased bombings after Paris) and side with the good guys, change teams and bring all their scary power and violence to the side of the good, and blast the shit out of everything and win the movie.
In this life thingā¦ people retain their core personalities and traits over the long term. Russia has always been about intimidation and thug-like power tactics. This has been overwhelmingly clear over the last 6-12 months as Putin has pushed bombers near the edges of US air space and starting an air war in Syria with next to zero notification to the US troops and air force, risking serious ramifications if the US shot down a Russia jet (had the US done this, we would have been crucified in world news, but Russia is just the good olā bad guys, canāt expect much from them ha ha ha).
So Russia pushes the edges of Turkey air space just like they have been pushing everyone in that area of the world and some idiot kid in a jet shoots down the Russian planeā¦ now Russia gets to be like a fucking thug that takes offence at anything you say to start a fight and scream their outrage and threaten more.
@WinstonSmith - I doubt the NATO charter would include flying over borders as an attack. Had it been a tank column, then weād be looking at some serious sh*t.
@wanderer - Joshās take notwithstanding, Iād be surprised if the Russian pilots didnāt have specific orders to keep pushing the boundaries in hopes of provoking something like this or finding out how far Turkey would go to defend its airspace. Iād also be surprised if the Turkish pilot - probably anything but āan idiot kidā - didnāt have authorization to fire from a superior who also had authorization going up the chain. This one rests directly on Russiaās shoulders, but somehow I doubt that Putinās going to be making much hay out of the fact that a plane from his vaunted air force got shot down by Turks flying US fighters.
Sarajevo.
@wanderer - Joshās take notwithstanding, Iād be surprised if the Russian pilots didnāt have specific orders to keep pushing the boundaries in hopes of provoking something like this or finding out how far Turkey would go to defend its airspace. Iād also be surprised if the Turkish pilot - probably anything but āan idiot kidā - didnāt have authorization to fire from a superior who also had authorization going up the chain. This one rests directly on Russiaās shoulders, but somehow I doubt that Putinās going to be making much hay out of the fact that a plane from his vaunted air force got shot down by Turks flying US fighters.
I was being unnecessarily harsh when I said āidiot kidā. I should have phrased it as āa pilot pumped up on adrenalineā. I think it is very likely that the pilot had permission to take the shot, but it is also possible that in the moment, this pilot felt a threat and took the shotā¦ Russian pilots were pulling intimidation through radar locking on Turkish jets in October.
I wrote this yesterday on another site. I donāt know if the dynamic is still operational, but for what itās worth:
"There is hope for optimism: Secretary John Kerry announced the other day that we might be just weeks from a cease-fire in the Syrian civil war. If that happens, it could allow some breathing room for the various factions ā as well as anti-Assad states as Turkey, Saudi Arabia and some Gulf states ā to focus on battling ISIS.
If we get a cease-fire to the Syrian civil war in the coming weeks, like Secretary said we might, that could also stem the refugee crisis and sharply cut the number of Syrians who feel compelled to leave. That alone could change the dynamic of this crisis, and also clear the deck and clarify the battle against ISIS.
Even Iran a couple weeks ago said they were open to a transitional period to ease Assad out.
I hate to sound overly optimistic,but we might be turning a corner on Middle Eastern reluctance to take on ISIS. Now that the superpowers Russia, France and the UK are feeling threatened, they can help the US in putting considerable pressure on those leaders who are reluctant or half-hearted members of the coalition."