The fact that the Constitutional Convention labored in secrecy—it was
essentially creating a brand-new country with explicit rights for the
new citizens—in no way justifies the extraordinary secrecy that the
Obama administration has been pursuing for a goddamn series of trade
agreements that have the potential to affect every American citizen WITH
NO FUCKING RECOURSE.
Not justify, but it does illustrate the difficulty of publicly negotiating a complex multiparty agreement.
Don’t underestimate the power of a woman nor the pent up frustration of all America’s workers.
When you have been treading water too long and see a life raft on the horizon, you swim toward it whether its piloted by a Democrat or a pirate. The very fact there is a life raft still available is enough reason for some voters to take heart and climb on board.
But as you said, Hillary has to make the point she can’t save them all by herself. "Don’t bother to vote for me, if you don’t vote for my entire Democratic slate right down the line on the ballot. Otherwise, you are wasting your vote.’
But I do think her candidacy will be so groundbreaking that it will work a lot better than anything else tried in the last 40 years. I hate to say it, but Obama was too black for too many wavering voters. This is not a post racial America. Bill should help with the Dixiecrats in border states. Hillary’s Goldwater Girl roots with Independents.
A woman candidate will offer a much better chance for turning the tide. It will bring out women voters in droves. If not, her Hispanic VP will do the trick. Everyone needs to get out there and canvass…with your grandchildren and photos of Hillary’s grandchild. This is an election about the future of the American Dream for all our kids and their kids.
How much do you know about it Randy, as far as what happens in the USA.
There is always fear mongering but some distrust is warranted and we don’t need to know all of the particulars but feeling like we are totally in the dark causes the concern.
You know that I have faith in the Prez but this isn’t all about him and why shouldn’t we get some info, its about us supposedly?
Full disclosure: I’m not in favor of the TPP. It’s not the secrecy that bothers me so much as it’s the further erosion of workers’ rights that gets me and the idea that corporations have much more power than ever. I genuinely believe that the 1% will destroy what little remains of the American middle class because they are truly sociopaths. I also believe that nothing short of a major revolution will be able to remake the country. I really don’t believe that either President Obama, Clinton (HRC) or O’Malley will be able to change that trajectory especially if we can’t get rid of the House GOP which we won’t until 2020.
The Office of the US Trade Representative have some info on goals and objectives on their website. Apparently the goal is standards outlined by the International Labor Organization.
I think it would be a shame if, under the banner of protecting American jobs, we fail to take an opportunity to establish minimum international standards for worker fairness, for wage supports and protections, and for environmental and workplace safety regulations.
Because if we can manage to do this in a meaningful way, we can lessen the incentive of large American companies to outsource operations to cheap-labor, corporate friendly regimes, while we uphold basic civil rights in solidarity with workers in other countries.
Right now the vote is on the TPA “fastrack” item which would give Obama the ability to finalize negotiations on the TPP and Congress the ability to vote for or against, but not amend, the bill.
I am frustrated at the Democrats’ and Big Labor’s opposition, but this just seems to be following a pattern of short-sightedness or unrealistic expectations when it comes to President Obama:
Healthcare reform – not good enough because no single payer or public option;
Finance reform – not good enough because it doesn’t break up the big banks.
But from what we’ve seen, both the ACA and Dodd-Frank are working better than expected. And just like the Iran nuclear deal, we have seen, based on the framework deal, what looks like a surprisingly muscular and robust inspection and verification process – that is, surprising to the naysayers who said the deal amounts to handing Iran a nuke on a silver platter.
I expect, just like those other efforts, the TPP framework will also be well thought out, thorough, pro-worker, and – like President Obama himself – a game-changer.
Apparently you belong to the Republican wing of the Democratic Party.
“No politician in my lifetime has disappointed me as much. This makes me unbearably sad.”
I couldn’t agree more.
The GOP has been wrestling with income inequality ever since they finally realized that they had pushed American workers too far with outsourcing. I doubt my speculation isn’t anything but old news to those in Washington. Republicans have got to move Left very soon and they know it. This is going to be a Brownback’s Last Stand election with Walker getting most of the grief when it fails.
Jeb’s heart isn’t in it and it shows. He really believed in the Big Lie. He doesn’t want to be the standard bearer for the Far Right and get the blame. None of the rest of their candidates would even contemplate leaning Left.
Its both for me, I’m trying to see the good and how it outweighs the bad but it ain’t exactly happening.
I’m on a roller coaster, you are making my argument basically that I was making a while back but now I’m losing faith.
I know on paper this should be a good thing and I 100% agree on Obama’s past turning out positive but when I factor in the Republicans, the mega-corps and history the scales tilt back the other way.
I’m on the fence on a roller coaster and totally undecided.
How do I find out how my NY congressassholes voted so I can support those who voted no?
No, I believe in progress, and I realize that to get a massive agreement such as TPP enacted you need to be bipartisan in your approach.
The Republicans are for it because they are always for trade agreements. What might be different this time is the TPP includes enforceable labor and environmental standards, and that China – which is not included in the trade pact – has been experiencing declining growth rates and declining levels of foreign investment.
As NC Steve has stated, the TPP is a geopolitical realignment almost as much as a trade deal.
With some potentially awful downsides which I’m sure you know.
I see no need to eat shit to get the other better parts of the deal.
No, I really don’t know. Until the TPP draft is released, we are all speculating based on leaks of possibly outdated drafts, resentment over NAFTA, and hair-on-fire jumping to conclusions.
This will play out.
Of course and that is why I said potentially. Nancy bailed for good reasons and for a better deal with less ‘potential’ downside.
It is just as acceptable to have doubt as it is to have faith. There is the chance for some really good things and the same goes for the downsides.
It is playing out and the fact that it isn’t just flying through is a good thing. I trust President Obama but wouldn’t give you a plug nickel for the lobbyists or corporate shills. The Republicans are always for trade without the slightest concern for the working man, this is true but it doesn’t mean that we need to agree with their terms.
More can be gained from going with this deal than just the deal itself. Concessions from the Republicans on infrastructure and so many worthwhile other issues are a great upside and nice ancillary benefit.
Agree, and I’m looking forward to seeing this play out. I think Pelosi will get her pound of flesh as well.
And realistically, this is too big a deal to just sail through. I hope it improves as it proceeds.
And on a broader level, we should also consider the value of simply getting a deal through. Besides the trade aspect, there can be benefits from these 12 nations working together under a unified trade regime instead of fighting or undercutting each other, or falling under the influence of China – that aspect is hard to quantify, but it could be meaningful.
Yep, poorer nations getting better work conditions and better pay is nothing but a good thing and something that every liberal ought to care about. Plus, if their pay goes up the incentives to move American jobs there goes down. Even the playing field and may the best businesses win.
I have nicknamed this the, World Wide Market, and I think that that is fitting. I don’t trust China at much of anything really but our new partners in the Pacific will have to play by the rules and all things being equal that should benefit America. We are the Big Dog in this and we should have the most influence. This means that we have no need to cave on environmental aspects, legal issues or reduction of anything inherently American.
American rights are fungible.
And if TPP is ratified we will then move on to TTIP, the European counterpart trade pact. At that point, we might be able to confront China as a bloc about the terms of agreements they violated when they joined the WTO.
Funny, there doesn’t seem to be nearby the hysteria over TTIP as there has been for TPP.
Is it because it’s Europe, mostly white people, mostly social liberal democracies involved?
Why is TPP a burning issue and TTIP a snoozer?
Other than you, I’ve heard not one other mention about it, I guess that’s why. We tend to get excited about things as they pop up and TPP hasn’t been thoroughly rung out yet.
One massive trade deal at a time is the max load apparently. The trend is the thing, the World Wide Market seems inevitable and that may be a good thing but once done, the deals won’t likely ever be undone, this is why we need to baby step our way into them as opposed to fast tracking our way.
Personally, I’m every bit as good with the Islanders as I am with the Europeans.
How do you feel about partnering with the French or Germans?