I’m with you, I seriously doubt even the most hard core Cutler supporters want another 4 years of LePage and his nonsense.
I’m sympathetic to your point about “spoilers”, especially in enormously consequential races like the Presidency. However, I’m not sure if we can pit all of the mistakes of Bush against a hypothetical Gore Presidency.
VP Al Gore in 2000 was hardly Assault on Reason Al Gore. Hell, he chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate.
Maybe, and I hate to conclude this, but maybe Gore would have led a response to 9/11 (if it happens in this scenario, but we’ll assume it does) including one unnecessary war and an economy only slightly soiled rather than fully trashed (furthering the Clinton-Gore neoliberalism but not to the extent that Bush did).
A huge part of Bush’s legacy was the agenda-setting he managed to run in the Capitol from mid-02 through approx. Hurricane Katrina (Aug 05). Even if the 02 election isn’t a Republican wave, Gore would have had to negotiate Hastert just as Obama has with Boehner, and the underlying dynamics are as bad in both cases.
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I don’t buy it either. LePage got 38% in the last election and has spent his time since then alienating people. I also find it hard to believe that anyone supporting Cutler, who is basically a Democrat without the label, would vote for a lunatic like LePage.
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Outlier, people. Keep calm and carry on.
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I’ll surely remember to steer clear of the loony bin that Maine has become. I hope a moose shits in the hat of anyone voting for this moron.
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In Maine, a large number of reasonably intelligent people are unable to focus & counteract the intentions of a minority of intensely stupid people.
Gov. LePage is handsdown the stupidest governor this country has seen in some time, and that is including Perry, Brownback and Palin. If I was voting for governor and my choices were LePage and Rob Ford and running mate Duke Cunningham, I would pull the lever for Ford and feel fortunate for the opportunity to do so. How anyone can support that moron is way beyond my intellectual capacity.
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LePage could rank up there with Evan Mecham!
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Your Gore-hypotheticals and assumptions strike me as a variant of “both sides do it.” Although it is possible that 9/11 might still have occurred with President Gore, it’s not as likely - in part because, although parts of his debate performance were less-than-sterling, Gore does not and did not have the combination of arrogance and stupidity that Bush loved to display.
And, had 9/11 actually taken place, Gore might have gone to Afghanistan, but it is HIGHLY unlikely he would have bullshited the country into attacking Iraq. That was, in large part, Junior showing Poppy that his dick was bigger.
Economy? No Bush tax cuts under Gore - at least, no cuts benefitting the Kochs/Scaife/Adelson to the exclusion of (almost) all else.
Yeah, he might have had Hastert to deal with, but there were no Tea Baggers, and Gore is white. (Which is not the only reason that Obama has “caused” the Rethugs to act seditiously/treasonously, but it has certainly been a significant factor.)
No Roberts or Scalito, either.
So, no, Gore would not have been “Bush lite.” Nader may have believed that, but he was wrong, and I hope he burns in Hell for giving us Bush.
And if Cutler (hopefully) gets his head out of his ass, he might consider making a speech, on the order of: “I appreciate it your support, but it’s more important that Paul LePage be defeated, than having my ego stroked because of policy differences between me and Mike Michaud, so please vote for Mike, if that’s what it takes.”
PS: And although Lieberman is a major-league schmuck about any number of things, I would suggest that his presence on the ticket helped keep Gore in the race in Florida, and did not hurt his chances (in any meaningful way) in other states.
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LePage won with 37.6% of the vote in 2010 with 218,065 voting for him, and 362,473 voting against him. The concept of majority wins is so 20th century.
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If LePage actually gets re-elected, then I won’t feel sorry for Maine. They knew what he was about, and STILL voted for him. They get what they vote for.
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Sorry, but I can’t let that claim of no Roberts or Alito stand. Both were appointed in Bush’s 2nd term. In the hypothetical game, obviously, one can make up whatever one chooses, but it is a serious strain on credibility to assume Gore wins a 2nd term. Its likelier, all other things being more or less equal, that Gore loses the 2nd election. Which makes it a republican, if not Bush, choosing both of those seats.
Likewise, the comment about Gore being white and dealing with Hastert is erroneous. Bill Clinton was white, and just look at how he was treated by the GOP in Congress. They would have fought Gore just as hard and at every turn.
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If you’re saying Gore would have responded with military force to 9/11 I’d have to disagree. bush immediately went to a military response because his neo-cons were urging him to do so (and had even tried to urge President Clinton to do something military against Iraq) but also because he was bound and determined to out macho his father who cautioned against invading Iraq. Gore would probably have tried sanctions of various kinds once it was determined who was behind it but in any case, it would not have been a rush to invade another country.
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Exactly. Lots of really weird polling numbers popping up here near the end, and strangely enough, the story becomes THAT poll, not the overall general trends.
With regards to Iraq, yes. However,with regards to the Taliban/al-queda in Afghanistan…that’s another story. I have a hard time seeing anyone in the White House not seriously considering the use of military action after 9/11 against Osama bin Laden and his cohorts.
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How nice it would be if a third party candidate actually helped the good guy win. I’m sure there are examples, but nothing is coming to mind right now.
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I can see into Maine from my porch–up here in northern New Hampshire. As I drive around and see the shacks and trailers with LePage signs, I just can’t believe that these people are this stupid. But I know what it is: Resentment against immigrants. Resentment against Blacks(Obama). Resentment against gay folks. Resentment against liberals. Resentment against anyone who’s different.
As Nietzsche pointed out, resentment is one of the most powerful and vicious human feelings. And the Republicans play on like concert pianists. And even an idiot like LePage plays on it with his off-key tuba. Dear God I hope Cutler drops out.
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Maine hasn’t become a loony bin. Maine overwhelmingly supported Obama in both elections, and tied with Massachusetts in 2012 as the state with the third highest percentage of whites voting for Obama (behind Hawaii and Vermont); we recently became the first state to support gay marriage by popular vote; we consistently rank as the one of the best states to raise kids and our schools
consistently rank highly on a national scale (despite being the oldest state in the country). Our most conservative national politician (Susan Collins) is the definition of moderation (a 100% rating from NARAL in 2013), as was Olympia Snowe (despite the nonsense you occasionally read here comparing them both to Ron Johnson, Jim Coburn, etc.) And the 1st District has been represented by the awesome Chellie Pingree in recent years, and before Pingree by Tom Allen and the great Tom Andrews. The other congressional district has been represented by the Democratic nominee for governor, Mike Michaud (meh).
This is all in the context of having the 2nd lowest rate of personal income growth (that old people thing again) and being perpetually rated as the least friendly state to business (due to environmental regulations and our silly notion that businesses should pay their fair share of
taxes). We aren’t the most liberal state in the country, but we’re hardly the “Mississippi of the North” some people think.
Obviously Cutler is a factor (remove Cutler and this race would be over). And as for likely voters, believe it or not, the black bear could be a huge factor in this race. There’s a referendum to ban bear-baiting on the ballot, and it has a really energized opponents of the ban, most of whom undoubtedly support LePage.
And, fwiw, the Michaud campaign has been a real disappointment; they’re over-riding message literally seems to be that Mike Michaud is “an average Joe”. Safe, squishy, milquetoast messaging.
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Man, it really doesn’t matter how many ways people show that the Nader voters did not throw the race in Florida to Gore. That argument always has been and always will be ridiculous, both logically and by the numbers themselves. You guys will take that fairy tale to the grave with you won’t you?
The Florida vote came up at a deficit of 543 votes for Gore. Why does everyone go after Nader, and not the Natural law party, which brought in 2,281 votes, which mostly probably would have gone to Gore. Or the Workers party, which brought in 1,804 votes. Hell, even the socialists party brought in 622 votes, and I doubt any of them would have voted for Bush. The separate socialist workers party brought in another 562 votes. Why isn’t it their fault?
I will tell you why. Because most of the people who vote third party would not vote if the third party was not on the ballot. They aren’t natural Gore voters just because they were part of the Green party. The reality is, the few that would have voted if Nader hadn’t been on the ballot, some would have voted Gore and others would have voted Bush, and it is by no means clear whether the split would have been enough to win for Gore.
If you want to blame someone there are two people who deserve the blame more than any others. The SCOTUS for halting the recount on an incredibly flimsy reasoning. And Al Gore, for not demanding a recount in the whole state, since he would have been guaranteed to pick up more than enough votes to make up the difference in miscounts in the counties he performed well in. Instead, he insisted on a recount just in the contested counties, which, by definition, were already close. He should have trusted in democracy and asked for a recount of the whole state, which he was entitled to under the law.
One more group of people to blame: “centrist democrats”. 12% of self described “democrats” voted for Bush in Florida. That is 100,000s of votes. Way more than the measly few that Nader allegedly scraped off Gore. Centrist democrats deserve your scorn way more than the left does.
So once and for all, stop blaming Nader for Bush. There are other places where the blame is much better placed. Plus, how many lives has he saved because of his work as a consumer advocate. I bet the number is in the millions. He deserves some credit for that work. But you ignore it all, over a fairy tale that makes you feel better.
And FYI, I voted for Gore in Hawaii. That as a truly meaningless vote.
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Perot helped Clinton beat Bush Sr.
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