How do we differentiate between actual sexual harassment and an old-fashioned Republican rat-f**king?
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Beverly Young Nelson when looking back at younger picture of herself :
āShe sure did have a lot of promise ahead of her and she didnāt deserve to have a 32-year-old man prey on her.ā.
Keep in mind the āyoung girlā she is referring to was 27 and in a war.
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You got off easy! He had sex with my wife, me and our four children as we were getting ready for the picture. Then, just as the picture was being taken, he finished and we snapped back into position with our arms around each other and all smiling (but if you look closely you can see those smiles are fake). It was so traumatic that the only person I have been able to tell about it is my good friend Roger Stone.
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Iām afraid I do tooā¦ another possibility I fear is maybe they wonāt do any investigation at all and let those pieces of bullshit stand (the media do their part to help in that case).
I so hope Iāll be proven wrong because real investigation with cross exam is what we desperately need, and not just to exonerate Frankenā¦real victimsā credibility is also at stake.
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I was skeptical of the Tweeden allegations as some factual assertions didnāt measure up and because of the Roger Stone angle. But these last 4 allegations (and there will be more) fit a pattern. Franken is a groperā¦maybe a light groper, a quasi juvenile over hormonal teenager groper, but heās still a groper. Maybe heās not a Matt Lauer FUBAR predator, but heās still a groper.
I believe in due process, but there are limits to what the party should have to tolerate before demanding his resignation. I think weāve reached that limit. Franken himself left it open that there will be more stuff. With Pelosi ushering Conyers out, Iām finding it difficult to see why Franken shouldnāt go too.
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White women who are 27 y.o. Are naive young girls (unless they are 14 and assaulted by middle aged republicansāthen they are courting
them and essentially tempting them). 13 y.o. African-American males are men who are fully responsible for every action and reaction and LEOs are able to act as judge, jury and executioners with no repercussions.
As always hypocrisy thy name is Republican
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Thereās a lot here thatās hard to draw a bead on:
ā¢ It is weird that that his accusers never seem actually to have the goods on him. BUT thatās often the case with legitimate sexual harassment or assault claims.
ā¢ The media attention paid to Frankenās case seems overblown, particularly when compared to the lack of attention paid to Joe Bartonās indisputably worse behavior in a sort of parallel case ā and the fact that Franken has called for his own ethics review. BUT we criticize Republicans for whataboutism when they bring up Clintonās sexual conduct in response to Trumpās.
ā¢ In a just world, everyone would allow due process and proportional punishment to take their course, BUT in a narrow political sense, the best way to limit damage to the Democratic brand would be for Franken to resign, so that a Democratic appointee can start building her or his bonafides before the 2018 election.
ā¢ Frankenās apologies and explanations have seemed heart felt. BUT theyāve at times also been confusing and seemed contradictory (e.g. Is he apologizing for something he doesnāt recall? Itās a bit unclear.)
ā¢ Most obviously: Frankenās defenders call bullshit on these womenās claims, BUT isnāt that exactly what Moore, Trump and company have been saying about their own unproven accusers?
Fellow commenters may quibble with some of the above. I donāt feel knowledgeable enough to take a position on Franken. Iām not a good enough strategist to know the right move. But I am certain of two things.
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We on the Left need to settle on a more consistent posture to such claims than simply believing their accusers and not accusing ours.
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Congress needs to develop an open, fair, expeditious process for investigating these complaints and weeding out really bad behavior.
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Take a good look at the picture. She says he grabbed her right breast. He has his arm around herā¦it would take quite a stretch and physical contortion to reach all the way around to her right breastā¦ He either has very long armsā¦orā¦
And isnāt she leaning into Franken, instead of the other way around? And where is the look of shock on her face?
Do you have to be a Republican for Franken to touch you?
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The more I think about this the more it seems like bullshit. If you look at that picture it is clear that the only way he could have had his hand around her breast would be if they were standing side-by-side. That would have been visible to everyone. According to her story, if she hadnāt moved the picture would have been taken in that position. So in other words he was happy to have a picture taken of him in public with his hand clearly cupping some womanās breast? That is utterly absurd.
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Someone that years later voted for a man that admitted grabbing women by the p*ssy.
Sorry, this seems a little fishy to me. This is very coordinated and in light of what we now know about Project Veritas and their failed WaPo setup, I canāt help but wonder if they are involved.
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Ok. I buy that Franken did some things, call it being handsy, stupid, whatever. In the pantheon of abuse, it sounds like he is a bit player at most. Heāll be investigated and he will survive this. But we should not take our eyes off the prize. tRump is regarded as a serious serial abuser of women with rape accusations. Brave women and others with credible information need to come forward and bring this MoF down.
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I have some suspicions that we actually will
I donāt believe these woman want to go under oath which is why Tweeden quickly accepted Franken apology and said let the people of Minnesota decide. None of the women have offered to participate in an ethics investigation. I donāt think the GOP will be aggressively pursing this. Currently itās the right thing to say but do they really want people snooping around in their lives because thatās a can of worms that will be opened. I would bet there are few exceptions of people on the hill not engaging in similar if not more egregious behavior. The pic this woman provides shown NOTHING. Shock and disbelief is not even reflected on her face and if this upset her so much you would see it. Also, sheās leaning into him, not the other way around. Why would she do that if he just accosted her?
Just because you screamed wolf and there is no proof of a wolf doesnāt negate a person from having that behavior scrutinized. Tweeden by the way got a book deal from Sinclair. Not a bad days work for someone who have been proven to be a liar.
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And isnāt she leaning into Franken, instead of the other way around? And where is the look of shock on her face?
I dunno. It looks to me like sheās doing exactly what she would have done if the unwanted right hand of a celebrity had wrapped around her and landed on her breast: Pull in the direction away from that hand, and smile for the camera.
The woman at the state fair said she voted for Klobuchar.
She said she might of, she wasnāt sure, but she did vote for drump.
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you mean the anonymous one? the one who could be a Trumper who SAID she voted for Klobuchar? Anonymous people could say anythingā¦
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Sorry, this is just classic victim-shaming. Many women have an incredible capability to put on a brave and smiling face despite being victimized, and we shouldnāt take their smiles as evidence that theyāre not traumatized.
You donāt have to believe the story if you donāt want to, but the smile is zero evidence.
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But these last 4 allegations (and there will be more) fit a pattern. Franken is a groperā¦maybe a light groper, a quasi juvenile over hormonal teenager groper, but heās still a groper. Maybe heās not a Matt Lauer FUBAR predator, but heās still a groper.
Of course they fit a pattern. It really doesnāt take a genius to learn patterns of behavior, especially when the Chief Pu$$y grabbers pattern has been in the news for over a year. Either these women are being coached, or they are just reading whatās already in the news, just say-it happened when there were no pics being taken. How convenient.
You ever been to one of these candidates photo shoots? I have working campaigns for 2 decades. These pictures are not taken in isolation. There are not only dozens of people standing there watching because you want to make sure that the person who requested the pic is the only one in it with the candidate, but there are also dozens of camera phones going off. Camera phones were available back than, she didnāt have someone take a photo of her with him, a Senatorial candidate with her own phone? I find that hard to believe.
I am looking at a photo which accompanies this TPM post and Frankenās arm is around behind the accuserās back and nowhere near her breast. So - in the common parlance of today - WTF? Were other pix taken? Where are they? No evidence, just a person (who may or may not have an agenda) leveling a charge against a person who meets and greets thousands of persons in a year, marching along with other complainants. There is no reason to dismiss the notion that these attacks can be politically motivated, especially when they gain traction in media and scorch a politicianās career and reputation. You cannot deny that GOP women might possibly be so motivated.
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Then why did she still take the picture
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No. Sheās one of three on-the-record accusers. Here name is Lindsay Mentz.
@musgrove To set the record straight: She and her husband expressed certainty that she voted for Trump and Klobuchar, but she said she thinks she voted for Franken.
The couple voted last year for Donald Trump, and Menz said she has voted for Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar, who is a Democrat, in the past. Menz said she believes she has voted for Franken as well, but is not sure.
This is meant politely: We always complain that the other side is counter-factual. Itās important that we hold true to our principles as well, even when the facts arenāt convenient for us. Meanwhile, Iām sure we can agree that itās more important to focus on the Trump Family Tax Cut Act, so Iām going to try to resist going any further down this rabbit hole.