Discussion: Martin O'Malley: I'm Not Running In 2020, 'But I Hope Beto O’Rourke Does'

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21

No, but apparently you do. What I was doing was disproving your need for “degree in law or economics” to be president. You may want to rethink that since both Lincoln and Truman managed to become great presidents without such a degree.

Do you have any idea what experience they both had before they became Presidents?

Yes. A missing degree in law didn’t stop Lincoln from being a great lawyer. Truman’s lack of an economics degree somehow didn’t impede him from avoiding bankruptcy (probably wouldn’t have hurt him, though). Both, as noted above, were above par presidents.

You can continue on your anti-Beto tirade all you want - that’s of no interest to me. What is of interest is what education is deemed requisite to become president. I don’t think you have the handle on it that you think you do.

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22

If Beto is pissing people off, he’s doing something right

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Cruz is hated in the Senate, not in Texas. Cruz won his primary in 2012 despite being outspent 3 to 1. And he won the 2012 election by nearly 16 points. For O’Rourke to pull within 2.5 percentage points was a huge victory, no matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise, particularly when you consider that the final RCP polling aggregate was that Cruz was up by 7% and that the early predictions and early polling were that he would win by double digits.

I find it fascinating the way you develop irrational dislikes that have no basis in reality.

Oh, wait … no, I don’t.

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I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you do a compare and contrast of Lincoln and Truman’s combined education and experience before they ran for President, and then explain why Beto O’Rourke’s combination of B.A. in English and experience qualifies him to do the job as President compared to theirs?

I’ll wait.

In particular, what experiences has he had that would make him a good commander-in-chief? What is his foreign policy experience? What is his record of legislative accomplishment after 6 years in Congress? How many judicial nominations has he been involved with? What is his executive experience in running a large and complex administration? How many full-state or national political races as he won?

He is utterly unqualified to be President of the United States.

25

You first. We’ll wait.

He is utterly unqualified to be President of the United States.

Now if you only had any actual data to back that up, you might have a point. You don’t. And you don’t.

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26

Let’s run the numbers, shall we?

a) In 2012, Cruz beat a Republican primary opponent who outspent him 3 to 1. He then went on to win the election by 16 percentage points. O’Rourke beat that performance by 13 percentage points.

b) Cruz started at roughly 12 percentage points ahead of O’Rourke. O’Rourke beat that starting point by over 9 percentage points.

c) The national average was Democrats had an 8.5 percentage point advantage over Republicans. O’Rourke beat that, as well.

d) The final RCP average showed Cruz up by 7. O’Rourke beat that by over 4 percentage points.

e) O’Rourke demonstrably had no problem raising funds.

f) O’Rourke demonstrably had no problem connecting to average voters and exciting the base.

g) O’Rourke had no problem getting favorable press.

On every metric that you care to name, when it comes to pure politics and the ability to get money and votes, O’Rourke has clearly demonstrated that he has what it takes.

Against all of this, you have absolutely nothing, which is the reason why nobody here really takes you seriously. You cannot back up your attacks.

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27

You forgot to mention the most important number of all.
Beto came within 3 points of beating an incumbent Republican in a state where Republican voters outnumber Democrats by a 3 to 2 margin.
That said, I’m not sold on Beto yet. I have some reservations about some of his past youthful mistakes and want to see how that all shakes out during the primaries.
I want the candidate who has the best chance of winning no matter who that turns out to be. It’s way to early to judge that now. I’m going to wait and see how all the different candidates actually do in the primaries and see how they run their campaigns. I just hope the Democrats can save their ammo for the opposition and not have all the infighting we had last time.

People should not be so quick to call someone a troll just because they do not agree with the opinion of the majority.

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I hope you’re prepared to wait until hell freezes. As I specifically said, your anti-Beto tirade is of no interest to me.

Why don’t you do it? You’re the one whose hair’s aflame about presidential educational requirements. We’re still waiting for your definitive standard.

You almost had a cogent point. Thanks for playing.

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Because, like I have already explained, Beto O’Rourke does not have any educational or career experience that demonstrates that he is qualified to actually do the job of United States President, and clearly you can’t point to any.

The comparisons to Lincoln and Truman that you made are clearly absurd. Despite the lack of formal education, both had tremendous and demonstrated professional experience that qualified them to do the job before they were elected.

Beto O’Rourke’s BA in English is not a relevant prerequisite for being President of the Untied States, and there is nothing in his political career or legislative history that qualifies him, either.

But personality cults are funny things.

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And like I already explained, you’re the one whose hair’s aflame about presidential educational requirements. We’re still waiting for your definitive standard.

[quote=“georgeh, post:15, topic:82565”]
A degree in law or economics
[/quote] didn’t really pan out for you considering Lincoln and Truman. Perhaps you would like to call them exceptions to your rule, but as any well-read individual can tell you, “[…] Never make exceptions. An exception disproves the rule.” [A.C. Doyle, S.O.T.F.] So now you turn to me to prove your point for you. So sorry, that shit don’t play. Put up [your educational standard] or shut up.

T.T.F.N.

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I never wrote about there being “presidential educational requirements.” That is something you made up to try to change the subject. I don’t believe there is a definitive standard. I am writing specifically about Beto O’Rourke’s education and experience.

What I wrote was “Beto O’Rourke has no education or experience that qualifies him to do the job as President.”

So, let me repeat: “Beto O’Rourke’s BA in English is not a relevant prerequisite for being President of the United States.”

You’re welcome believe that Beto O’Rourke’s education and experience are equivalent to Lincoln’s and Truman’s.

Like I said, personality cults are funny things.

Done.

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georgeh, meet your petard.

This is an indication that you believe that some standard of education is a requisite qualification to be a president. I specifically asked you to define that standard a couple of times. You…uh…demurred. Well, no. In truth, you balked and whinged on about Beto O’Rourke without addressing the point. In forensics, that’s called Begging The Question (and yes, folks that’s the real deal: asserting the conclusion without providing supporting premise(s).)

Why, thank you so much! But you’re NOT welcome to put words in my mouth or purport to speak for me when I am far more capable and credible of doing so for myself. For the last time, I don’t give a fly fuck about Beto O’Rourke’s presidential aspirations and/or qualifications or the lack thereof. I just wanted to see if you knew about which you spoke. Clearly not. Res ipsa loquitur, quod erat demonstrandum, in nomine patris, et cetera, amen.

Done and done.

Finis

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In general, we don’t. George is being called a troll because he displays all the characteristics of a troll, including saying stupid shit that he cannot support. In the case of the post you responded to, I was simply pointing out that in terms of campaign mechanics, his ability to run a campaign, pick up donations, inspire the base, generate favorable press, etc., O’Rourke has demonstrated that he has the necessary skill set. George’s assertion to the contrary was ludicrously false.

You can disagree on the substance of O’Rourke’s policies, for example, or you can point to the lack of detail on a campaign website or perhaps how he flounders when faced with tough questions (as Sanders notably did in that interview with the New York newspaper editorial board) but you cannot claim that O’Rourke is not a skilled campaigner, not when all of the available evidence points the other way.

Note that this is in response to George’s idiotic claims, not in response to your post, the substance of which I agree with. I, too, have some reservations about O’Rourke, mostly on the policy side. And were George to actually raise on-topic concerns and be able to support them with actual data, nobody here would have a problem with that. What we have a problem with is George’s irrational obsessions and prejudices, none of which he can support and all of which he raises here over and over and over and over and over and over…

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34

And, like we already explained, that’s bullshit, since every President has said the same thing: no experience prepares one for assuming the role of President. Nor is there any correlation between background prior to assuming the office and performance as President, which is why you cannot support this idiotic assertion any more than you can the rest of your bullshit on this thread, All you can do is mindlessly repeat it.

The comparisons to Lincoln and Truman that you made are clearly absurd

Actually, not absurd at all. You can also make similar comparisons with Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, John F. Kennedy, etc., all of whom were deemed “unqualified” for the office to which they aspired. The most qualified President in my lifetime was George H. W. Bush and with all of his experience and qualifications he was, at best, a mediocre President.

Like I said, personality cults are funny things.

Oh, you mean like people who irrationally hate on individuals for no reason at all and, when challenged, cannot back up their irrational bias?

Edited to add that there if there were any substance to your concerns, it would be easy to validate by looking at O’Rourke’s speeches, his campaign website, how he answers probing questions, etc. The “lack of qualification” would be easy to spot because clearly he would be unable to discuss foreign or domestic policy with any level of detail, his numbers wouldn’t add up, he’d have pie in the sky expectations that don’t even come close to matching reality, he’d flounder when challenged by a tough question, etc. (See, for example, candidate Bernie Sanders.)

The fact that you are unable to come up with specific examples of such things (and, I’d be willing to bet, haven’t even looked for them) demonstrates the irrationality of your prejudice. When you have actual data, we’ll take you seriously.

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