Discussion: LAPD Officer's Bullet Killed Trader Joe's Worker During Standoff

So lets recap:

Guy shoots and injuries his grandmom, then flees with a teen girl. Police are chasing the car which crashes at a trader joe’s. After the crash people inside the store go to see the crash not realizing what is happening. The suspect then fires at officers (no officers were injured) before going into the store. The police return fire at the suspect who is close to other bystanders. Police shoot and kill a 27 year old women employee during this return of fire (at a crowd of people). The suspect then takes hostages in the store. Hostage negotiators get suspect to give himself up.

Why exactly did cops spray bullets at a store front with a bunch of people who were not involved were at? How many bullets did cops shoot at this crowd of innocent bystanders?

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All these guns flooding our streets…part of Putin’s plan to destabilize the US. Question for Putin: Why doesn’t Russia allow AK-47’s and hand guns on their streets and in the hands of civilians?

Where’s the NRA and that good guy with a gun theory…cop shoots innocent worker in shootout. Imagine if it was an untrained school teacher with a Russian made AK-47…dozens could have been kiled by that good guy trying to take out another civilian with a gun!

Stop ignoring “a well regulated militia”. Our founding fathers knew guns…Mitch McConnell doesn’t even now which end is the pointy end let alone someone who should be wrongly defending and mischaracterizing the actual words in the US Constitution.

Owning a gun is NOT a god given right…it is a privilege. With over 35,000 Americans dying from guns each years and over 600,000 since 9/11, Americans have blown the privilege…especially under educated, insecure white males the age of 18 to 40 which is the group most likely to kill other Americans based on the FACTS!

Who buys all the guns?
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

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LAPD doesn’t have a policy about firing into a crowd?

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Yes, but is the gun ok?

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I think people have to stop and think how excited this officer was to be able to actually “return fire”. I had a brother-in-law who was a Phoenix policeman (back during my first marriage) and this is a moment a lot of these guys live for.

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Yeah, thats the problem. They should dread the day, not live for it. And of course they will not be punished for senselessly causing the death of a 27 year old women.

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Indirect response here (it’s LV, not LA):

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/17/wild-video-shows-las-vegas-police-pursuit-shootout-with-suspects.html

Watch as he commences is high speed chase, then pulls out his firearm to start shooting THROUGH HIS OWN WINDSHIELD WHILE DRIVING WITH ONE HAND. Hailed as a hero…and if you’ve any questions as to how giddy this made the Faux News target audience…or how rabidly they attacked anyone who posted something along the lines of “WTF? That HAS to violate policy…he’s lucky he didn’t hit some poor innocent bystander”, then by all means, peruse the KKKomment board under the article. Anyhoo, I would answer your question thusly: I guarantee you it depends on which way the political winds blow on any given incident, and not what some written policy says.

Rejected response: “Depends on what color the crowd is.”

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“Research suggests it’s largely because they’re anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears animus.”

FIFthem

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Wonder why they are so anxious… glances over at faux news and nra.

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Because he had the gall to shoot at them. Honestly. Probably the simple reason.

This is sad and tragic, but not unforeseeable.

Atkins will probably be charged with murder or reckless homicide, if CA law allows it, since the death occurred during the commission of another crime.

The cop is probably traumatized over killing an innocent civilian … but will likely rationalize and get over it.

Lucky there weren’t more guns around with bullets spraying everywhere. If trained cops don’t hit the target in a crisis situation more than - what did I read, 30-35% of the time - then good guys with guns are not needed to contribute to the chaos and carnage.

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Almost all police departments ostensibly have rules of engagement telling officers not to fire when civilians might be endangered. Some of them even reprimand officers who do so.

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The gun nuts say that bad shooting by cops means they needz their own gunz.

But of course the NRA doesn’t have a Joseph Wilcox GGWAG award.

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See how well having “good guys with guns” will work to stop bad guys with guns? Also, see cops = idiots, for more.

…and I remember when a local police officer came to my elementary school (in the early eighties) to talk to the kids. Of course someone asked him how often he fires his gun. He got really serious and told us that in his 30-something year career he had only fired his gun twice, and in each case he was not happy about doing it. He made it clear that it was not something that was enjoyable, it’s not like it is on TV, and that police officers are committed to avoiding shooting their guns unless absolutely necessary.

I realize that this kind of thing probably varies widely by region. But I DO believe that police officers used to be trained in this way. Things have gotten a lot more aggressive since then, probably lots of reasons for it. But it doesn’t have to be this way.

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Police officer pursuing armed suspect shoots and kills innocent bystander in crowded food store.

Therefor, teachers should have guns so they can shoot at armed suspects in crowded schools.

Discuss.

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It reminds me of a local case that people will bring up to defend the “good guy with a gun” argument. A guy held up a Target with a shotgun at the check out line area. One of the people in line at the check out pulled a pistol and emptied it into the guy, despite that the guy was still able to run and make it out to the parking lot before collapsing. When the cops came and investigated it turned out that the shotgun wasn’t loaded. Now all those that were praising the guy as a hero handwaved it as he had no way of knowing the shotgun wasn’t loaded. Which is true, but frankly just makes his actions all the more WTF. I mean despite being shot the guy was still able to run and make it to the parking lot, which means if the gun had been loaded he would probably been able to get off some return shots before going down. Return shots with a shotgun. Return shots with a shotgun into a crowd of people. I mean what gives this concealed carry asshole the right to risk the lives of all the other people in the check out line that way? Just to protect a couple of bucks this national chain is probably insured on anyway? But you point that out and all the “good guy with a gun” types stick their fingers in their ears and go “lalala can’t hear you.”

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And for that matter some of the chases they do through traffic and pedestrians.

That’s probably one of the big problems with Hollywood’s depictions of gun violence. Typically, it’s very “clean.” A guy takes a hit, he goes down, no fuss, no muss. I don’t have any direct experience with actual gun violence, but it seems like your situation would be more typical in the real world. But these “heroes” in their own minds are convinced that it will be easy and “clean.”

For one thing, our bodies make a significant effort to survive, even in adverse conditions (like bleeding from multiple gunshot wounds). Consequently we can survive some pretty severe punishment. And with adrenaline pumping and the body going into shock, we can temporarily ignore debilitating pain. As these factors of gun violence are rarely discussed or depicted in the “glamorized” silver screen and similar depictions, people often get extremely inaccurate expectations which probably help fuel these delusions.

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