Discussion: Jane Sanders: Open Primary Races Are 'More Democratic'

:+1::+1::+1::+1::+1: :100:

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I suspect the biggest reasons the tax returns are not being released is that we will all learn exactly how much Mrs. Sanders is being paid from Bernie’s political fundraising. She is a Senior Advisor to the current campaign and has told us that she has long played an active role in his media purchases. Then of course there is her Burlington College presidency, ouster, and negotiated settlement.

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I understand the argument, and don’t fault anyone for taking that position. And I don’t have any problem with the idea that the party has the right to restrict primary voting to just registered Democrats. But in the long run I don’t think it’s going to be in the party’s interest to do so, at least not too strictly, given the large and growing percentage of unaffiliated voters – and that’s where the various in-between models I mentioned above come into play, along with same day registration or at least not overly strict registration dates.

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Can’t imagine why a Party might want people who actually register in said Party be allowed to choose the member representing that Party. Crazy talk.

And I mean not like rat-fracking the Democratic nominees ever has taken place. Oh wait.

Of course there are crickets about the completely undemocratic caucuses from the Sanders side. Hmmm. Wonder why?

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Suddenly they are worried about democracy when just a few days ago they were talking about super delegates over riding the majority of voters? You know I can understand being strongly for your cause, but seems like the longer Saunders and his folks are allowed to talk the less integrity they seem to be showing.

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I don’t think we are far from each other on this.

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I realize some folks aren’t comfortable with same-day registration for primaries, but I hope we can all agree with it for general elections. In addition to the obvious advantages in terms of people who aren’t registered ahead of time still being able to vote in the election at the last minute, it solves a lot of problems like showing up at the polls and finding that you’ve been wrongly purged from the rolls, or are still registered at a previous address, or you’ve had a name change or whatever – any of those problems can be remedied by just re-registering there on the spot.

Some of the arguments I’m seeing advanced against same-day registration – that if you didn’t bother to get your ducks in a row ahead of time you aren’t showing much civic engagement and shouldn’t complain when you can’t vote – start to sound eerily similar to GOP talking points in favor of strict Voter ID requirements, aggressive purges of the voter rolls, etc.

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Mischief is definitely a factor, especially when only one party has a competitive primary. On the whole, however, open is better. Michigan’s non presidential primaries are open, you just have to stick to the Republican or Democratic side of the ballot, no ticket splitting in primaries. But various alternative systems; ranked voting, for example, would be better at both opening up the process and discouraging vandalistic voting.

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Obviously, Jane is not ready to fill Michelle’s shoes.

I tried to be clear that I was addressing a slightly different problem I see in the whole primary elections system. First, primaries and caucuses are for the benefit of the parties, not the people. Political parties, even though they existed at the time of our country’s founding, are not even mentioned in the US Constitution, nor is the idea of primary elections. Primaries are an invention to benefit parties, not the people, and yet the people have to pay for them. I believe parties should pay for the selection of their candidates, not the people. THEN, the parties can make all the rules they want. It has absolutely nothing to do with dumb fuckery.

The reason I’m not wild about same-day registration for primaries is it can make them effectively open ones (which I don’t prefer – think they defeat the raison d’être of political parties). But I’m all for same-day registration for generals where we choose the top executive/representatives of the country to which we belong as an obvious ā€œmemberā€ (native-born or naturalized)… and our commitment/allegiance to the country is already assumed. And I think with that same logic, foreign citizens are not eligible to vote for our general elections. And as @answerfrog said upthread, party registration does not matter in voting in general elections. No restriction should be placed there to block voting age American citizens who do everything right from exercising their right/fulfilling their civic duty to vote to decide the nation’s leaders.

Political parties, on the other hand, are products of exercising constitutional right of assembly, results of conscious efforts to organize and mobilize people toward certain set of shared goals and individuals’ conscious (and voluntary, unless you live under the single-party regime…) choices to join a team. And in fact the door is open to join regardless of gender, race/ethnicity, religion, income, etc… just choose to register as a member to have your voice heard by the very team you broadly share your values with, which is a very loose membership requirement (and in fact, as you also suggested, I too think too much restriction doesn’t help with inclusive outreach efforts). But of course teams want team members to work together with, not someone who at a whim or with some malicious intent may disrupt the teams long-term organizing efforts have built up… so please just show you care enough to meet a reasonably set deadline (not like NY’s) to join is what I ask for.

It’s a balancing act, but I agree with you that there must be some reasonable compromise.

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This is the kind of stuff that has turned me off of the Sanders campaign…well, this and the Hillary-hate, and the delusional rigged-this and undemocratic-that whenever things don’t go well.

You vote for anyone you like in the general, but not in the primaries. Parties are organizations, like clubs or companies with more or less similar views, and they exist to promote politicians that will work to promote those views. It makes no sense at all to allow non-members to have a say in who the party will support; worse, it creates opportunities for members of other parties and ā€˜independents’ to skew the results of primaries for their own purposes. I dare say that a significant percentage of people voting in open Democratic primaries this season have no intention of voting Democratic in the Fall.