Discussion: Israel Mobilizes 40,000 Troops For Gaza Operation

Discussion for article #224773

I’m ready and willing to let the entire area go down in flames like some say God has planned in the Bible. What’s wrong with these people? All the do is fight each other and generally act crazy or depraved. Maybe it’s time to give Iran a bomb if they haven’t developed one yet? Someone needs to put them all out of their misery?

Another excuse for the Likudist war criminals to kill Palestinians. Netanyahu should be arrested when he travels to Europe and put on trial at the Hague.

The blogs of many IDF soldiers reveal that they are psychopaths who take pleasure inflicting physical pain and torture on Palestinians; especially women and children.

And these are the “allies” that we support with our national treasure and the lives of our military service personnel. All the ills of the Mid-East stem from the unwillingness to resolve the Palestinian homeland issue. the illegal settlements continue to be built in contravention of all signed agreements and international law.

Israel is becoming an outlaw nation. Their supporters dictate our foreign policy and put our country in great peril.

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Is it Israel’s fault that we started a war in Iraq? Is it Israel’s fault that we’ve been propping up dictators since the 50s?

The Middle East’s problems run much deeper than Israel I’m afraid. It’s far too convenient for us to just blame all our problems on Israel, when we’ve been complicit in many of their worst abuses.

And what do you mean by “becoming” an outlaw nation? If you take international law seriously (many Americans don’t) then Israel has been an outlaw nation for decades now.

yes … those people in Hamas are just the best kind of folk, why, I bet those rockets were full of candy and little puppy dogs for their Israeli neighbors.
Hamas provoked this, as they always do, this is their biggest fundraising solution, keep poking Israel until Israel finally hits back then scream to the world how the big mean Jew is beating up on them again.
If they cared HALF as much about the Palestinian people, who are the ones who really suffer for this, as they cared about killing Jews, they would sign a treaty and get about the business of building their country.

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With regard to all those rockets that are fired into Israel, why do we never read of any casualties? Is it because they are an overblown phenomenon and a mere pretext for killing evermore Palestinians?

And the desperation of people subjugated for decades makes them do desperate things.

I’m no fan of Netanyahu’s brutality and demagoguery. I despise the settlements. But laying this one — not to mention “all the ills of the Mid-East” — on Israel is just ridiculous.

Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel proper for weeks now. It has nothing to do with the occupied territories. Hamas opposes Israel’s existence even within its internationally recognized borders. It advocates and participates in the murder of civilians within those borders.

Netanyahu and the Likudniks surely exacerbate the situation. But Israel has every right under international law to respond with military force.

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“Nothing to do with the occupied territories”? Either you are a fool or a liar. The desperation of a stateless and subjugated people, perpetrated by Israel, causes the subjugated to do desperate things. Their homes are stolen or destroyed, their children are imprisoned and killed, and they are being systematically starved to death. What would you do under such circumstances?

The myth of a benevolent Israel anxiously awaiting genuine partners in peace is a fraud. The continued, decades long taking of land and construction of settlements reveals the truth. Israel picks and chooses, as it pleases, the international laws to which she complies.

You should try reading the writings of Edward Said if you wish to know the truth about the various “peace agreements” forced upon Palestinians. Israel will never allow an independent Palestine or equal and viable Palestinian participation within a one-state arrangement. To think otherwise is delusional.

The international community needs to boycott every product coming from Israel, not allow their products to be sent to Israel, and deny access to their countries to those with Israeli passports until their criminal regime is removed.

Those rockets are not terribly accurate, but if they land on you or your house, they are effective. Israel also has anti-missile systems in place. For children in Sderot who have to grow up in bomb shelters instead of playgrounds, they’ve had quite an impact.

I’m not sure that there is any country in the world that would tolerate a weaker neighbor launching barrages of rockets without responding. That doesn’t mean that Israel is blameless; it most certainly isn’t. But it’s ridiculous to act as if there is only one antagonist in this story.

And as for the repression of the people of Gaza, Israel did repress them for decades. however, israel left Gaza in 2005. Since then, Gaza has been ruled by Palestinians, including, of course, since 2007, Hamas. The Israeli blockade was imposed after the Hamas takeover. Hamas, of course, promises to destroy Israel, and makes various efforts to kill Israelis. So again, I don’t know of any country that would tolerate a weaker that pledged to attack it to arm itself if it had the power to prevent that.

You should read the Hamas charter, which, among other things, cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, accuses the Rotary Club of being Zionist agents, and notes the following:

" Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims."

Israel’s oppressive policies have certainly helped engender Palestinian anger, but Hamas taps into something else. It launches attacks against Israel not because it is oppressive, but because it is, period.

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The people of Gaza are not being starved to death, systematically or otherwise. Not to justify all elements of the Israeli blockade (though a blockade in some form is justified), but while Israel’s food policies in Gaza have often been draconian, there is no “starvation.”

and of course, it’s worth pointing out that ending the blockade is up to Hamas. They can change their policies, they can step down–but as long as they are in control of Gaza, Israel is perfectly within its rights to maintain a blockade.

Your screen name illustrates your myopic bias, perfectly.

See, for some inconvenient truths:

https://www.mecaforpeace.org/news/palestinians-thirsting-justice-water-starved-occupied-territories

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2014/05/25/un-monthly-report-occupied-palestinian-territories/

You seem to be one of those posters who makes a hyperbolic remark that can’t be supported, and then begins making equally hyperbolic accusations against anybody who calls you on it.

Please note, I did not support Israel’s blockading of food. Indeed, I called it “draconian.” But that doesn’t mean that it equals “systematically starving” Palestinians to death. Israel set a daily allotment of food for subsistence, over 2000 calories per day. To be sure, that has contributed to hunger and shortages, and so on. By contrast, the Nazis in Poland set limits for Poles and Jews far below the necessary caloric intake, with the explicit goal of reducing the population through starvation. If you had said that Israel’s food policies during the blockade were cruel, unfair, at times absurd, I would have agreed with you. But there is nothing to suggest that Israel has been “systematically starving children to death” in Gaza.

Well, I guess you’re not on the other side of the empty spoon. The malnutrition and food deprivation are a direct the result of Israeli policies. You certainly haven’t read my posted links. Are they too disturbing to your reality?

The infamous comment by Dov Weisglass, advisor to Ehud Olmert, in 2006, “the idea is to put Palestinian’s on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger” illustrates this policy. Such policies and those of “mowing the grass” as the periodic bombings and military incursions by the Israelis are depicted, are proof of the systematic destruction of the Palestinian people.

What will probably occur at some point, sooner rather than later, is the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from these occupied lands. There is no other recourse based on an extremist Zionist mentality. They do not want a two-state solution and a one-state arrangement is unsustainable as a Jewish state in the long run.

My comments are not hyperbole, at all. They are merely the recitation of facts that you find uncomfortable because they conflict with the mythology of Israel as given to you in your youth.

I read your articles, which present exactly the case I presented. simply putting on a headline saying “Israel’s sinister starvation plan” doesn’t make it so. Look at the evidence you present–a quote from an Israeli official saying the “the idea is to put Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.”

So to clarify–your evidence that Israel is “systematically starving children to death” is a quote from an official saying precisely the opposite.

As for Israel’s incursions and “mowing the grass,” you are being disingenuous. “mowing the grass” is not a policy directed at the Palestinian people, but at Hamas. And, in fact, each of those military operations has two things in common

  1. They were preceded by increased rocket attacks from Hamas.
  2. They were followed by a renewal of the cease fire that existed before Hamas increased rocket attacks.

It’s almost as if there were a cause and effect, in which Hamas launches hundreds of rockets at Israel, and Israel responds as any country would by attacking the source of those rockets. could it be, perhaps, that if Hamas no longer did such things, Israel would stop bombing? Or if Hamas were willing to recognize Israel, that there could be an end to the blockade? Curiouser and curiouser.

The only “fact” you recited was a quote that demonstrated the opposite of the point you were making. As for me, I’m a supporter of a two-state solution, and I’m happy to criticize Israel when it’s merited, but I’ll criticize it honestly, not engage in intellectually lazy sensationalist rhetoric.

But uou offer no criticism of Israel merely vague “tut tuts”; you’re quite lazy in that regard. Of course you interpret “mowing the lawn” and the “diet” comments as benign; they’re not happening to people for which you have any regard.

When does the imposed “diet” become starvation? At which stage of malnutrition is the imposed “diet” an exercise in punishing all Palestinians, especially women, children, and the physically vulnerable?

The “lawn maintenance” by the IDF is not meant to punish merely Hamas, but all Palestinians. I realize that the political defenders of Israel are made more comfortable by believing that Palestinian lives don’t mean so little to the Israeli regime and radical Zionists; after all they’re merely an impediment to a Chosen People; they’re something less than fully human in the eyes of the zealot.

What a true humanitarian you are! Why you even support a two-state solution! Gracious, how magnanimous you are.

When supporters of Israel stand up as vociferously against the excesses of the Israeli government as they do that of the Palestinians, I’ll be moved to applaud.

One of the seminal moments in formulating my political and philosophical beliefs was when I watched an old black and white film in 8th grade French class, called The Night and the Fog. It was comprised of documentary footage taken of the Nazi death camps. I was almost moved to tears to realize that man could inflict such horrific atrocities on their fellow men (and women and children). The images from that film will stay with me forever.

But the statement “Never Again” has no meaning if it is meant to be applied to only Jews. It loses its moral imperative if it is not a directive to speak and act against all efforts meant to erase a people and their culture. Such are the actions of the Israeli regimes over the last 47 years.

I support and defend Israel’s existence. However, that existence is stained forever if is at the expense of her soul caused by the barbaric actions that we have all been witness to far too often.

Great, so you support and defend Israel’s right to exist, so do I. Hamas does not. You may notice in Night and Fog, for example, that the victims of the Nazis were not declaring their intention to destroy Germany and drive its population out. You may also notice that during the Holocaust, the Jewish population in Europe declined, while under Israel’s rule, oppressive as it has been, the Palestinian population has expanded. There are different types of oppression. The fact that Israel is oppressive doesn’t mean that it’s oppression is comparable to the Nazis’

As for my criticism, give me a specific case, and I’ll give you a specific criticism. As far as I’m concerned, Israel was wrong to blockade any food; it’s blockade should have just involved things useful for Hamas to attack Israel ordefend against Israeli attacks. But see, I can say Israel’s food policy was wrong and immoral, without saying that it was an effort to “systematically starve the palestinians to death.”

So I will gladly criticize Israel–I do so on a regular basis to my history classes in the Jewish high school that I teach. But when somebody says “I support and defend Israel’s existence” but doesn’t consider Hamas’ intentions and actions in their evaluation of the conflict, I can’t take them seriously. A serious evaluation of any conflict is one that examines the roles played by all combatants, and Hamas is most definitely a combatant and not merely a victim. And since Hamas is the government of Gaza, their actions are going to have repercussions that affect the whole area.

To reiterate, we both want Israel out of the West Bank and Gaza. Well, Israel left Gaza unilaterally, and the response of Gaza was to elect Hamas and begin attacking Israel. So since Hamas’ official position is that it will not accept Israel’s existence–not just it’s involvement in the West Bank, what do you think Israel should do when confronted by Hamas violence? Leave Gaza? it already did that. End the blockade? Hamas will simply import more weapons and materiel. Allow it to rain rockets on Israeli citizens without any consequences?

Israel is “out” of Gaza in just a narrow context. They control the borders and make the state ungovernable. They regularly intrude into Gaza to undermine any government institutions and normal life. They control the flow of water, building supplies, and funds into Gaza. But they’re “out”, right?

Israel exists, despite Hamas’ statements to the contrary. There have been many proposals on the table to gain “recognition” but Israel has refused them for internal political reasons.

They will not return to the 1967 borders, They will not permit the right of return. They will not abandon their settlements. They will not share Jerusalem. They covet the entirety of the occupied lands.

The Israel regime needs Hamas; they need the rockets fired from Gaza (despite their pitiful ineffectiveness) because both Hamas and the rockets and the nonrecognition give the extremists license to render the occupied lands noncontiguous ghettoes.

A continued state of war serves the interests of extremists of both sides. Israel has the power to make peace. The Palestinians do not. The nonrecognition issue is a straw man. It carries no weight of actual power but it is used to taint the entire matter.

If there was recognition, Israel would determine a new “impediment” to peace. The settlements won’t be dismantled and the Zionist and religious extremists won’t allow themselves to be ill served by the actions of the Israeli government.

Just one point about those rocket attacks - I’m not a conspiracy buff, but if I were, I’d imagine that they’re a government creation. You know, sound the air raid warnings, frighten the people and explode ordinance in an empty field. Thousands of these rockets fired and have there been 10 casualties in 10 years? Quite curious. As I said, these rocket attacks serve the extremists’ purposes.

So you don’t believe they are a government conspiracy, but you raise the issue anyway? Nothing like having your cake and eating it, too. But all this demonstrates how much you’ll bend over backwards to avoid laying any blame on Hamas. You also perfectly demonstrate my point about hyperbole, by introducing a completely fraudulent figure of “10 casualties in 10 years.” In fact, there have been hundreds of casualties, including several dozen deaths.

Israel’s withdrawal was an experiment, and the Palestinians of Gaza failed it. Again, there was not blockade before Hamas took over. The intrusions are in response to Hamas attacks.

Israel does not have the power to “make peace.” By definition, peace between combatants requires compromise. How can Israel unilaterally make peace, I’m curious to know?

So your excuses for the murder of Palestinians is to blame a “government” that has no power to succeed because it is predicated on the power of Israel to guarantee its failure. Yet, you’re “liberal” enough to blame both sides. How magnanimous of you. I’m sure the parents of the children killed by Israeli airstrikes take great comfort in your “liberal” leanings. The parents of those children intentionally malnourished by the Israeli imposed “diet” are hopeful because of your courage.

The face of evil appears so benign; exactly like your “courageous” willingness to assign blame to both sides. Israel does have the power to make peace. She can dismantle the settlements, lift the blockade, restore access to water, allow the Palestinian government to receive the funds it is rightfully due, stop the airstrikes, share Jerusalem, etc. The options are many. Israel holds power, Palestinians do not.

However, as your screen name illustrates, your allegiance is clear. Those, such as you, see one side as “the other”, their lives less worthy of concern than one’s own group. At least be truthful and agree that your allegiances are tribal.

Regarding those rocket attacks on Israel, see:

**The supposedly deadly little rockets fired from the Gaza Strip have killed or injured no Israelis, though they have done some property damage. In fact, those rockets have no guidance systems and very seldom hit anything, mostly landing in the desert.

Nevertheless, Reuters and other agencies (or their headline writers) routinely equate deadly Israeli airstrikes with sophisticated American fighter jets with small dumb rockets, some of them the sort of thing that could be made with an 8th grade chemistry set. And, of course, Palestinian lives are cheap and their 53 dead and (150) wounded don’t count. That no Israelis have been killed is not mentioned because it would interfere with the narrative of violent Palestinians and victimized Israelis (it is mostly the other way around).**