Discussion: In First Speech Since Conceding, Clinton Tells Supporters To 'Fight For Our Values'

I voted for Clinton and financially supporters her in this election-and gladly, given the alternative. But from my perspective, the Democratic voters sent a loud and clear message to her back in 2008. Unfortunately, when you have a larger-than-life presence like Barack Obama in the White House for 8 years, it’s hard for another Democrat to emerge as an immediate successor. That left the Democratic equivalent of Bob Dole, John McCain, or Mitt Romney: a highly-qualified candidate who had “earned” the right to run (and maybe even be the nominee), but one with minimal energy, charisma, or mass appeal. Still, the country and the world would be far, far better off with Hillary Clinton in the White House.

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Or Joe Biden Oh I wish he had run. He would have shredded Donald Trump

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The country will very shortly wish it had this woman at the helm, who’s shown 1,000,000x more grace in defeat than Trump and the Bannon crowd have displayed in victory. Congressional Republicans may regret her loss even more so than us liberals.

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In principle I don’t accept the legitimacy of “coulda, shoulda” arguments, and with respect to Biden in particular, I don’t believe it. For starters, I think Hillary would have taken him apart.
I could go on with pointless theorizing, but I won’t. Hillary was good enough. She barely lost under circumstances that were the most unusual and unfair in decades.
Painful as it is, I think she may find her true voice as this year’s loser. I hope she continues to speak out.

Let me add my own “coulda, shoulda.” If you want to make guesses, then a much more pointed one is that Sanders damaged Clinton enough to cause her to lose. Is it true? I don’t know and I don’t honestly care. I simply think it’s a pretty reasonable hypothetical, much more than Biden running and winning.

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I’m of two minds with this. As the (hilarious) BIden memes have shown, people unfortunately tend to think of Joe as a person not to be taken seriously. On the other hand, he probably would have dampened the intensity of the racist/misogynist vote (by virtue of being white, male, and someone who can speak to the middle and working classes).

But, ultimately, do we really want to just keep nominating white males because the assholes in this country won’t vote for a woman?

(Side note: I was for Biden in the 2008 primaries. I have long thought he’d be an excellent President.)

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I don’t entirely agree.

Much has been made of President Obama’s personal charisma and the inspiring nature of his candidacy, and the less-exciting nature of Hillary.

But if we are to win elections in the future, it cannot be by relying on a candidate who can “excite” apathetic and unenthusiastic voters; we need to rebuild the Democratic Party from the ground level up, and begin again the task of fielding viable candidates in all levels of government.

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Hillary is the president who never was but who embodies the hopes and aspirations of millions of Americans.

Hopefully she will become a moral force for our nation, a Queen of Hearts and a source of inspiration as we trudge through the dreary winter of the Trump era.

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[quote=“centralasiaexpat, post:5, topic:47325”]
If you want to make guesses, then a much more pointed one is that Sanders damaged Clinton enough to cause her to lose. Is it true?
[/quote]No. Sanders’s attacks were nothing new for a primary candidate, and pointed out areas of weakness for Clinton. The idea that Republicans would not have come up with akin lines of attack on their own is absurd, as they have been mixing legitimate criticism like that of Sanders and batshit crazy accusations for a quarter-century. Instead of shoring up those weaknesses, the Clinton campaign and the center-left pretended these weaknesses didn’t exist, and arrogantly wasted time and money trying to run up the score in questionable places like Omaha and Texas rather than focus on turnout in battleground states like Pennsylvania and Michigan.

There’s lots of blame to go around for this clusterfuck, but the Clinton campaign and the center-left, the folks in the driver’s seat, warrant the brunt of it. Even with stuff like Comey’s letter, this should not have been close.

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I really don’t want to get into a long argument, because I think these discussions are completely pointless, as well as not based in the facts (which we really don’t know fully yet), but I really disagree with you. Sanders with the Teddy Kennedy of 2016. I am positive he made a difference with his character attacks. How much? I don’t know. Of all the things that went wrong in this election, figuring out the percentage of blame due to Sanders truly doesn’t matter to me—but some blame is due.

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"If you want to make guesses, then a much more pointed one is that Sanders damaged Clinton enough to cause her to lose. Is it true? "

No. IMO, she lost all by herself (with a little help from her see nothing hear nothing strategists but Sanders did expose her and all her real and imagined media-driven baggage. Looking back, it was a bruising primary battle. I forget which debate it was but when the subject of who’s better qualified to run the country was being argued, Sanders astutely turned her advantage as most ‘qualified’ right back on Clinton by conceding she was of course qualified - but that she lacked in judgement. BA-BOOM. It stuck all the way to Nov 8th.

Hillary is the president who never was but who embodies the hopes and aspirations of millions of Americans.

Well then, maybe she should have listened

Hopefully she will become a moral force for our nation, a Queen of Hearts and a source of inspiration as we trudge through the dreary winter of the Trump era.

Queen of Hearts? More like Rosemary on the gallows “thinkin’ 'bout the Jack of Hearts”.

The GOP thanks you for your support.

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Guess you missed my ‘Jack of Hearts’ reference. Oh well, I thought it pretty good.

No, I got your Dylan reference.

Watching HRC speak movingly at the Children’s Defense Fund is staying true to character - Compared to Mika and Mark Halperin’s contemptible narration this morning.

What is it with Mika and her vicious hatred of HRC? She’s been a diabolical “trumpet” through this election season and her storyline on “morning joe” has finally won. Why is she continuing this awful hatred?

For heavens sake, nobody’s screaming that she(Mika) detach her :lips: from the President-Elect noxious orifice, just leave Hillary alone - Gawdawful :japanese_goblin: woman!

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You got your passports in order?

ETA: Remember, these things come in three’s:

  1. President-elect Trump
  2. CAT5 hits Florida
  3. ???

THANK YOU! I totally agree. It is US folks that lost the election. To sit and say ‘It’s HER fault, she didn’t inspire us!’ is a total cop out. IF we had a strong party and had pushed back on the lies about HRC for the past 30 years, showed how her opponents were lying STILL, didn’t collapse under the avalanche of absolute BS about her ‘scandals’ and how much worse they were even though everyone ELSE did them and you know, generally SUPPORTED our candidate and got off our dead asses and VOTED, we would have won. It was OURS to lose and no amount of ‘Oh Joe coulda’ or ‘What about that Bernie?’ would have made a difference.

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Looking towards the future, I am wondering if we will see a more active role for both BHO, HRC and WJC. There is nothing that say that former POTUS and former candidates need to go quietly into the night. I’ll keep humming Fight Song for a while.

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She should feel awkward. She and the DNC and the establishment media got Donald Trump elected as president. There have never in my lifetime been a bigger set of losers.

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