Discussion for article #222496
Knock it off, Harry. That’s the kind of off-the-wall, sophomoric hyperbole that will only embarrass those of us who take climate change seriously. As a Democrat, I’m telling you not to undermine our efforts.
The Kochs are big contributors to the problem, and bigger contributors to the effort to bury the issue under millions of dollars. But leave the bogey-man scare tactics to right wing.
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“The University of Massachusetts, Amherst … ranked Koch Industries as one of the nation’s biggest air and water polluters, period,” he said, adding: “They are the champions.”
It’s not surprising that the Koch’s are champion level polluters, but I think some science should be applied to the specifics of the pollution emitted by Koch industries to determine just how much of it contributes to global climate change, then determine what percent of the total global climate change-inducing pollutants the Koch’s responsible for, to derive a percent of blame to place upon Koch Industries.
It’s precious how the Kochfucks impose themselves upon every level of our politics, negatively affecting our lives and futures, and then bitch and moan when somebody imposes back.
Well fuck them. They may view themselves as gods, but rest assured, they are mere mortals, a lesson they oughta learn the hard way.
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“Give 'em hell, Harry!” But stick closely to the exact fact: one of the largest polluters behind ExxonMobil and Dow Chemicals is damning enough. As Truman said, “I only tell the TRUTH, and it seems like hell.”
Be careful - there are plenty of right-wing sharks circling below who are waiting for you to miss a jump.
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hey, steve, do you have ANY idea of just how much of a role the Kochs actually play in the total air, water and ground pollution we suffer from?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304026304579451464218192556
Are you at all aware of their tar sands holdings, or their extensive coalmine ownership?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/03/20/the-biggest-land-owner-in-canadas-oil-sands-isnt-exxon-mobil-or-conoco-phillips-its-the-koch-brothers/
If you lived near one of their poison plants, you might not be so quick to condemn, especially if one of their chemicals put you kids in the hospital with chronic emphasyma.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/08/26/5980/10-koch-plants-put-most-americans-risk
Do some research before you cast doubts, Harry’s not inaccurate here by any measure, and if you actually looked into the facts instead of emoting, you might be wiser.
The only reason this information is not trumpeted aloud on a daily emergency basis is the industrial strength stranglehold the Kochs have on our media, because they make the soap that grubstakes all the soap operas. And that is not meant to be funny, it is unfortunately true.
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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304026304579451464218192556
Are you at all aware of their tar sands holdings, or their extensive coalmine ownership?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/03/20/the-biggest-land-owner-in-canadas-oil-sands-isnt-exxon-mobil-or-conoco-phillips-its-the-koch-brothers/
If you lived near one of their poison plants, you might not be so quick to condemn, especially if one of their chemicals put you kids in the hospital with chronic emphasyma.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2011/08/26/5980/10-koch-plants-put-most-americans-risk
Harry’s not inaccurate here by any measure.
The only reason this information is not trumpeted aloud on a daily emergency basis is the industrial strength stranglehold the Kochs have on our media, because they make the soap that grubstakes all the soap operas. And that is not meant to be funny, it is unfortunately true.
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Kochs and their (effectively) infinite bank account are major perpetrators of climate-change denial and the inability to act against the rise in environmental CO2.
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I’m not emoting, JEP, nor am I unaware of how much damage Koch Industries has done all by their lonesome. My point is that Reid has to be mindful of who’s listening and who is familiar with the details (or has time to research it). To those who are only listening at the edges or are less concerned with the politics, it’s too big a claim to register withy these folks and it make him look like Chicken Little. In my business, I know a little something about messaging and perception. I’m just sayin’.
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I couldn’t agree less. Koch Industries are huge polluters. Give em hell Harry. You keep doing what you’re doing.
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Give 'em hell, Harry!
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There is absolutely no reason for Harry to hold back.
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The Kochs are no more responsible for climate change than you and I and the avaricious way Americans consume across the spectrum of things that can be bought and in some manner require the burning or transformation of fossil fuels. Major capitalists like them did not create the demand, they merely help satisfy it, collective costs be damned.
Attack them for their political efforts but trying to characterize them as the major source of greenhouse gases, etc. is stupid at best.
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Amen Jep. I started to write out a response and got so frustrated trying to spit bullet points, I gave up and deleted even before posting. Maybe I’ll try later. These TeaBircher Bros. can go fuck themselves. See. That’s about how mature I am at this moment trying to say what I really think. I’m so sick of them and the people that don’t see how incredibly destructive they are. They are the epitome of evil in my book. Harry Reid is my absolute hero going after them on a national level, because that’s how they play, and that’s how Reid wisely is managing to go after them.
The Kochsuckers are everywhere, probably playing politics in all fifty states now…so it makes perfect sense to go after them in this way. Its important to shine the klieg lights on these pompous plutocrats of pollution. And those that defend them…or turn their disdain on the ones bringing these immoral bad actors into the light, deserve to have the record set straight for them.
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Used properly, subtlety can have the force of a hurricane. Reid knows better. I agree with his POV 125%, but my concern is that is that the less informed voter — which is the greater constituency, I’m afraid — may be put off by what they feel is overstatement. And that can retard the progress of the movement. I’m right there with the progressive cheerleaders and want to see the Kochs drown in their own shit. But I also don’t want to see the Dems looked at the same we look at the far right fringe.
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Harry knows what is talking about.
A conservative DINO. We must all vote third party NOT Democrat!
Wow, you are uninformed. Pollution as well as the effects of greenhouse gases is something that the Kochsuckers don’t want anyone to do anything about…because GOVERNMENT REGULATION11111!!!1111OBAMASCARE1111!!!1111BENgHAzIIIIII11111!!!andFREEDumb111!!!
Maybe you haven’t had AFP in your neck of the woods yet, but most people have, and they’re not about truth, justice and the American way…that you can be sure. They were even interfering in my local millage election yesterday here in MI over fixing the fucking roads and potholes because why? Its all about deflection, powergrab, and taking over local politics to get their way eventually on land use, zoning and fossil fuel energy production once they’ve got their foot in the door. Its not about principal.
BTW, AFP lost big yesterday by a 4 to 1 margin. The community voted to raise taxes to fix the fucking roads as they did in all surrounding communities here, as well as fund other community services in overdue need of attention. People are sick of these control-freak plutocrat brothers and their out of state money, hiding in the shadows using front groups to do their anti-government schtick. People are finally waking up. Thanks to Harry Reid, this keeps the Koch interference in elections on the front burner.
That’s in response to your ridiculous statement…
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Exactly. While the Kochs are very active in trying to protect their own dirty fuel empire if we did away with them and all that they own we’d still have one hell of a tall mountain ahead of us.
They might be the most visible and active of the deniers they are only a small part of the overall problem.
So if there’s anyone out there who might hear Reid’s condemnation and not understand it, Harry should just shut up? Or maybe soften the blow and try to say something nice about the Kochs too? I don’t follow your point. His statements shake people up and get attention, countering the perception that Dems are wimps who cannot defend themselves, and that their mushy messaging is ineffective.
Whatever you claim to know about public messaging apparently does not include the impact of Reid’s election-year claim that Mitt Romney paid no taxes, and all the rest of Reid’s bold statements of the past few years.
Harry Reid has built a reputation for speaking hard-to-hear truths without flinching. Why should he use weasel words to please the ignorant?
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