Very well said. Thank you.
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Really? Give me a break! Shumerâs stance on this changes your mind? If Nancy wasnât riding him, weâd have a gazillion dollars put up for trumpyâs wall.
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You are ahead of me. I havenât even started thinking about who would make a strong vice presidential candidate. Just off the top of my head, Sherrod Brownâs name comes up. Heâs from Ohio, and he has the magic in the midwest. Combine that with Warrenâs Oklahoma roots and who knows.
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I think every candidate that gets serious scrutiny will have some cringeworthy moments. If thatâs all they have on her, she should be fine.
I also donât see her as a one note candidate.
I would like to see her (and all candidates) talk about her plan to get us back to treating climate change like en existential threat.
I would also like to hear something from her about what she would do to repair our international treaties and our relationships with our allies if thereâs anything left after individual #1 is out of office.
I donât feel a connection with her. Is she a rank opportunist? He conversion in 2009 from a stinking conservative to a shining liberal was awesome.
I donât know her apart from the two times she appeared on The Late Show, once to shiv Franken, once to announce her running.
She was not convincing, and I think she could learn something from Donald: have a clear, simply stated non-abstract goal, say âUniversal Health Careâ, âProgressive Taxationâ, âGreen Energyâ or something (The Donald has âWALLâ as a prop) . She appeared to be against bad things and for good things, thatâs too vague, you canât run on that.
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Franken had to face the consequences of his actions. So does Gillibrand.
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Or with Harris. They appeal to complementary groups.
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I agree. Just because Schumer was weak-spined for the millionth time doesnât clear Gillibrand. As I said upthread, I donât believe that because KG made a hasty politically advantageous choice to knife one of her own highly valuable teammates doesnât disqualify her - all by itself. It doesnât help her, but if that was the only strike against her I would not write her off completely. Like so many of these SenatorsâŚI would think only naked ambition might persuade them to give up the cushiest job in the world. KG does not have the positives or gravitas or political judgement or firepower necessary to win over the electorate and enact and shepherd a strongly progressive agenda. In my opinion. She shouldnât give up her very comfy and very prestigious seat, and muddy the Dem watersâŚin my opinion. I also believe she might pull off some nasty maneuver during the primaries that fractures party unity or really hurts our best candidate. Why do I fear that? Because of how she handled the Franken issue.
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Watching Gillibrand on This Week With[out] George Stephanopoulos. I donât think she will make it to the primaries, let alone through them. Fair or unfair, it takes magic, and she doesnât have it.
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I agree and I know it is going against the majority. A question, where were the men??? From my perspective they were all hiding and quietly saying good going Al when they red of his assaults. Boys must be boys after all.
Seriously? You are going with the men were all backslapping Al for his successful âassaultsâ? Didnât you read upthread Schumer pushed for his ouster?
You know donât you, that for years if you put Franken up against Gillenbrand on any topic or evaluationâŚevery Dem in the land would have taken Franken over KG? Do you think if the roles were reversed and KG was in trouble that Franken would have done this to her?
Why does your sliming of all men everywhere with one foul swipe pass as acceptable behaviorâŚwhen the very basis of race or sex equality is erasing thoughts that any group, race, or sex is intrinsically worse than another? You arenât going to get anywhere by replicating the bad behavior of generations past. You have to strike out onto new territory and prove you are as good as your cause and not stoop to sliming âthe otherâ just because in todayâs environment you can get away with it. If I said, basically, that women all suckâŚI would be fired.
Just so we are all clear, after a fairly long thread, your summation was that the guys were all congratulating Al Franken for his successful assaults (getting caught and shamed out of the Senate was success?) because Boys Will Be Boys.
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Um, no. Refer to my previous post.
[quote=âajm, post:77, topic:83296â]
ruthless and ill judged ambition[/quote]
A trait we unconsciously take for granted in all men in politics.
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Iâm sorry. But you are wrong here and the weakness of your argument is bathed in name calling. Not impressed.
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Often, but not always. Itâs a good point, one that I wrestle with in evaluating KG. Excessively ruthless men in politics certainly have been called out over the years. And as noted, itâs not for nothing that KG was referred to as âRachel Flick,â from Election (played by Reese Witherspoon). KG got that name from her own staff.
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What facts are you offering while stomping your foot? Dozens of his fellow Dems suggested he leave. Donât you suspect they know more than we know?
Btw, I sent his campaign money for both of his Senate elections, no one was sadder than me.
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That is true but if you think women are immune from such things, then I can show you almost any category of powerful female politicians and/or powerful corporate uber wealthy women behave the same way as the men.
As far as sexual predation or violenceâŚthere is no question men own a hideous and monstrous history. As bad as it was in the past, men are still getting sex mixed up with work and politics, in ways that women rarely do.
As far as corruption, self-dealing, ambition, ruthlessness there is very little difference. Certainly it is unfair who gets enough power/money to be able to even contemplate mis-using it. But once attained, women with power and money arenât covering themselves in glory at any higher rate than the norm.
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Not trying to defend Gillibrand here (in an ideal world, I personally would have preferred a full investigation as Franken urged), but I think the whole episode might have played out differently if there hadnât been a felt need at the time to resolve the issue definitively before the Alabama special election between Roy Moore and Doug Jones â with the added wrinkle of the far less ambiguous and far more substantiated allegations against John Conyers blowing up right around the same time. I think it was one of those situations where optics and perceived political exigencies loomed large and prevented the application of a more deliberative approach, and that the dynamic was bigger than just Gillibrand.
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Seriously, answer the question rather than rant and rageâŚ
Where were the Congressional men at the time. They were very quiet. They remained on the sidelines until some 20+ women gave them cover. So yes they were in essence saying boys will be boys.
As for Chuckie he had so much conviction that he talked to AL under the qt rather than publicly. That is until women gave him cover.
We all make mistakes it takes a backbone to admit them when they happen. Many can do that, many more never until shamed, others never can.
Just one example:
Had a boss come into my office upset that I had admitted to a client that I had made a mistake. Just so happened that that day the client was visiting and had stepped out to refill their coffee. Upon hearing the bosses comment they interrupted and said flat out that they would not be doing business with the firm if we were unwilling to admit a mistake. Shortly after I was fired. I followed advice by many clients that I start my own consulting business. I did so and struggled for about 18 months then had the majority of my former clients give me contracts. My former employer took me to court for poaching, etc. At trial the client, I mentioned above, related this story. It seemed they had taken over a 1/2 hour to setup a problem only to get a response âto contact ___ at _____ to have them finishâ. The client mentioned that this was work supposedly finished, tested, passed all quality checks, billed and paid for some months prior. After hearing this and other like stories the trial judge, without going to chambers to decide, came down in my favor. All because I was willing to say I made a mistake and to own it rather than the standard non-apology apology.
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no doubt. I have said a number of times I donât find this to be the defining KG moment. I wasnât happy with her part in itâŚbut I wasnât happy with how most folks handled it. Disappointed with Al - if it happened. But we may never know what Al did or didnât do. I thought his behavior when the accusations surfaced was exemplary.
You are absolutely correct that it came at a fever pitch moment and there isnât any question that all those factors made a definite difference.
However, that is what due process is for. So we donât start killing everyone in the village because 11 yr old kids say they saw witches.
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