Discussion: Gillibrand On Calling For Franken To Resign: 'Enough Was Enough'

Ya know, I’m just going to say something really unpopular and I don’t care. She’s right. If she felt those allegations were credible then she was absolutely right to speak out. I did not know there were eight. I knew there were three, but was unaware of the other five. I still love Al Franken, and I don’t know that he was guilty of what he was accused of or not. I don’t know either way, but I damn sure do know that it’s way past time to start believing women. None of this feels good to me. The #metoo movement is extraordinarily painful, but I can’t get down with protecting the ones I personally like or whose music I like.

Right now, there is a furious debate in the black community as to what to do with R. Kelly. For me, I’d like to see him spend the rest of his life in a cell next to Bill Cosby. But this whole debate has helped me to see that we shouldn’t protect Al Franken just because we love him. I still don’t believe he should’ve resigned, but that was his choice. She’s not responsible for his choices. She believed the allegations against him and acted accordingly. Blaming her for his decision to leave, blaming her for believing the women is a step backwards where we are once again blaming a woman for the actions of a man. I’m not cool with that.

She’s not my first, second, third, fourth, or even tenth choice to be the nominee, but that’s certainly not because she chose to believe the women. I will only support her if she’s the nominee and I will do so vigorously, but I’m also not going to hold trusting in the stories of other women as a reason to withhold support.

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I really dislike it when politicians relate stories that bring their children or their moms or dads into the story.

Disappointing. She should leave this sort of cheap pandering to sentiment to Republicans. It’s really their wheelhouse.

Beyond that though, its time to stop blaming her for Franken. Really. @pluckyinky

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I love Warren, but I think she’s a one-note candidate. That note is fucking massive (economic unfairness), and I think is the root of most problems in our society.

But I don’t see her having a great shot at President. And her handling of “Pocahontas” has been cringe worthy.

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Or, you know, swearing once the morning amnesia fades.

Yep, that said it doesn’t mean her approach, then and now, shows the political acumen we want in a nominee.

I’m not sure I’m worried she’ll get it. So maybe instead if trashing her we should instead just not vote for her or donate to her campaign.

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If R. Kelly were white, would there be any debate?

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I agree 100% that we have to start believing women and not simply protect the perpetrators that we personally like. But, if after a year, Kristen Gillibrand hasn’t managed to convince people in her own party that that was her only motivation, then I have to question whether she has the political skills necessary to run for President.

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But I also suspect that Kirsten Gillibrand saw it as an opportunity she could exploit.

In. a. nutshell. She came across as nothing more than a rank opportunist who rode the #MeToo wave without demanding an inquiry. Franken resigned because I’m sure that senior Dems got scared as hell and didn’t think they should be seen trying to defend him. (Not to mention he’s in a reliably Blue State so no harm, no foul, right?). So, now he’s history and I’m supposed to think she’s some kind of defender of women???

She also said something to the effect that if she were around when B ill Clinton was undergoing his trial, she would’ve done the same thing to him. A consensual relationship between two adults.

Yeah, f*ck her.

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Absolutely. As much as I think she’s got as much right to throw her hat in the ring as anyone else, I don’t think she’s got a chance – but the Franken stuff isn’t the reason she doesn’t. It may be the big axe to grind here, but out in the real world most workaday voters don’t really care, Al Franken isn’t a cause.

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I find everything you said to be well reasoned and think you have some very good points. I don’t think anything you said would run counter to most of the folks here who are not huge fans of hers. It seems they have other reasons to not be thrilled with her. Most people are wishing she might have handled it differently. I don’t think the folks on this thread wish Franken was given a pass. I don’t think RW folks even think of her at all. Amongst LW, you mention her name and knifing AL is what will come to mind.

I hold it against her, if the part she played made Franken’s situation untenable. If it was inevitable, then she could have laid a little lower and played a less prominent part. She obviously has had a long time to formulate her Iowa points and had that one ready.

As stated above, having his life dragged out in front of him…with Dem’s grilling him and repeating the allegations and salacious stuff over and over (before the Rs even started) could easily have been too much for him and Dems to be put through. Even if he could have survived an ethics review and gotten a slap on the wrist…he might be RW bait for years to come. At the the height of a MeToo coup-count it didn’t look hopeful.

I don’t think KG making a hasty and self-centered move should be disqualifying. If you add all of her unpleasants together, maybe she isn’t a shining progressive. What part she played with Franken is a strike against her…but to me it is not fatal. The totality of what I know of her makes me wish for her to be happy with being a Senator and don’t hurt any more Democrats.

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Nope. Not at all. White people would’ve driven him out of their ranks and no one would ever think about playing an R. Kelly song again. Unfortunately, my people have a lot of work to do on this issue.

I see what you’re saying, I also tend to agree about her political skills in general, but I don’t think she can be blamed for people insisting on believing a thing for which there’s really no evidence. I mean, Franken would’ve been the least of her worries had he decided to run for president.

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I’m surprised how many people are still butthurt over the Frankenstein resignation.

Don’t wanna be forced out of your job? Then don’t force your tongue down women’s throats.

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Exactly, I am sick and fucking tired of people protecting men like Franken. The only person responsible for Franken is Franken. And I’m finished with people glossing over his own record, like how he threw ACORN under the bus.

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Well, thanks for the honest answer.

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She was probably a “young mom” back then too, when she was, ah, 50.

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Salon summary: “an ordinary upstate politician, largely defined by poll-driven issues that fit the right-wing rural district she represented in Congress” and as “a hybrid politician who has remained conservative enough to keep her seat while appearing progressive enough to raise money downstate.”

I covered the Franken mess previously, and will not point out the alleged details again.
She threw him under a bus prematurely.

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While I agree with you on Gillibrand, I would like to point out that of course she was wrong on Franken. It’s not hard to know it. At all.

Nobody with any sense wants lynching. We want justice. And that means due process. Something she denied Franken. That makes her wrong on Franken.

The point is this: denying someone due process, where they can defend themselves, is equal to character assassination. We don’t have to discuss Franken’s character to accept that he was wronged by Gillibrand.

Example: we held trials for Hitler’s henchmen. Even Hitler’s henchmen didn’t deny being Hitler’s henchmen. And yet we held trials for them. Even they deserved due process.

But somehow not Franken, in the eyes of Gillibrand and others. So given that she was so wrong on Franken - it disqualifies her.

I’m sure she’s going to get some votes but her run for presidency is not going to amount to much. Anyway her candidacy is a political stunt. Which she told us when she announced it on national comedy show. Superficiality is what she runs on. This is not 1980s. It will not fly.

We (I) are spending way too much time debating candidates who peak now. They are irrelevant.

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I think this is also a topic that shows the (high) average age of the userbase here. Every young (Democratic) woman I know takes for granted that blaming Gillibrand for Franken’s actions and resignation, as if he has no personal agency or responsibility, is absurd on its face. Most of them would also say the knee jerk dislike of her as a result is a form of misogyny that is hard to root out after a certain age.

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Yes. Didn’t we hear something along those lines earlier?

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