Never. They are Republicans. Next question.
Bullshit. I can categorically state I never put my grabbed anyoneâs butt without consent. The contortions to rationalize this is lame. And yes, I realize Franken is ostensibly one of the good guys and we need his vote in the Senate, but this âI don;t remember and I can;t categorically denyâ crap is just that⌠crap.
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Even shorter version: âIf I deny it Iâm effectively calling my accusers liars, which is taboo and will lump me in with Trump and Moore and other much worse abusers, even though people are doing that anyway.â
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Exactly.
But that isnât what he is saying. And why his responses thus far have been tortured to say the least.
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Which raises something interesting about Evangelical Christian attitudes to females. Is it that girls are inherently whores or potential whores and the good paternalistic men determine whether they go to the good side or the bad side? Above my pay grade or experience.
This case is exactly why Trump and so many accused just flatly deny and call the women liars. Even those who try to add context just get toasted by media cross-examination (as they should do) and leave themselves open to all manner of spin on whatever they say. Roy Moore tried it with Sean Hannity, and it was a disaster so he went back to flat denials and calling the women liars.
Franken clearly doesnât want to do that, and may have thought what he did in playful or other situations like a photo op was harmless flirting. Thatâs the impression I get from the context AND the statement of the women who took enough offense at what he did to record it in their head and mention it to others at the time, but not turn around and slap Franken or let him know at the time they were offended by his actions. The first photo-op women to come forward said her husband was there and she told him immediately after Franken walked away, but her husband didnât chase if down and confront him.
What I see getting lost in this whataboutism and false-equivalency is the matter of degree. A butt pinch or pat, or play acting (as in the Tweeden photo) is one thing. Actual sexual assault of a powerful person over their subordinate, or by those in a position of authority over someone else, or seeking to seduce a young girl, is in a completely different magnitude than what Franken has been accused of doing.
One addition comment on Conyers: The allegations involve a man well into his 80s at the time of the incidents. I suspect it is more of a frontal lobe issue involving impulse control and executive function than actual attempts at sexual harassment for the sake of sexual conquest or asserting power. I can imagine his House colleagues know this to be the case, but respect his lifeâs work and donât want to embarrass him. I think the same applies to George H.W. Bush and his roving hands.
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and thatâs why these guys need to be thrown out of office.
This is nonsense. Number of times I have accidentally grabbed a butt: 0. Number of times I have accidentally touched a breast: 1, in high school, it was a teacher and it was an accident (I was shaking my finger and didnât mean to crash it into boob) and I was horrified and apologized profusely.
Where are all the men coming forward to say âoh yeah, he accidentally grabbed my butt, tooâ?
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Itâs because he cannot under any interpretation imply that these women are wrong or lying. When a movement decides that accusers are to be believed no matter what, challenging accusations in any way makes you an enemy of that movement. Itâs the political equivalent of seeing if someone floats to determine if they are a witch â once youâre accused, youâre screwed either way.
EDIT: I should clarify, I completely understand why the movement insists that we believe people when they claim to be victims of sexual assault or harassment. But I think âbelieveâ is much better off as âtake seriously,â because otherwise weâre abandoning the concept of justice, and are absolutely begging less scrupulous people to take advantage.
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I can categorically say the I have! I have accidentally grabbed a womanâs butt, a guyâs butt my momâs butt, I have accidentally stuck a finger in my dogâs ear when taking pictures, I have on more than one occasion while walking too close to family members, friends and completes strangers accidentally âgrabbedâ their hands because our arms managed to swing in just the right way.
Accidental touching happens and I can definitely say beyond a shadow of a doubt say you, yes you, have touched someone accidentally that wcould be considered inappropriate.
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Really?
You accidentally grabbed other peopleâs butt?
Then you have problems.
Accidentally touching other peopleâs buttâs can and does happened.
Grabbing them?
No. It doesnât just accidentally happen.
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Thank FSM nothing important is happening in the DC Swamp, so we can all focus our undivided attention on thisâŚ
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Yeah I grabbed their butt, because my hand was down near my side and they backed up into me. I said sorry, they said sorry because it was a accident!
Did I squeeze and make lewd jokes? No, but my hand contact with their ass with palm outward, because they backed into me and no one freaked out.
Then we have an insolvable âproblemâ. Because whether or not some woman thinks she was âgrabbedâ on the butt by person A, when person A didnât âgrabâ their butt means that the woman is either wrong or lying.
And letâs be clear her, accidentally âtouchingâ someoneâs butt can happen. But âgrabbingâ doesnât accidentally happen. So either he did or did âgrabâ someoneâs butt without consent.
If he accidentally touched her but wasnât grabbing (as in cop a feel) then yes, she is either wrong or lying about it. Or he did it.
So, what are we left with as a way to unpack this?
So you grab butts that accidentally touch you?
As I said, you have a problem then.
That isnât âgrabbingâ.
That is someone making contact with your hand.
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That Isnât grabbing. That is accidentally touching. Grabbing is intentional.
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Exactly.
Words have meaning.
I was in NYC last week on a vacation trip and was in The Met going through the Michelangelo exhibition there. It was crowded as myself and tons of other people were moving through the exhibit looking at the various drawings and sketches on display. At one point I was holding up my iPhone to snap a shot of one sketch in front of me, and a lady was standing just in front and to the right but was staring at the sketch on display on the right. My long sleeve pull over hanging off my elbow brushed a lock of her hair as I was moving my arm forward to get a snap without a reflection in the glass.
She freaked and accused me of âtouching her hair.â
I apologized for accidentally brushing against her hair. But she kept saying I need to stop touching her hair. Which I was not doing.
She was not only wrong in her interoperation of events, but was grossly overreacting and implying I was trying to touch her hair and was going to do so again if she didnât say something.
So would I be incorrect or correct in saying I never intentionally grabbed her hair?
Was she âwrongâ?
Was she overreacting?
Was I âwrongâ in saying I wasnât âtouching her hairâ but apologized for my sleeve brushing her hair in close quarters?
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Yeah, Iâm standing talking to a friend I shrug slightly with my palm outward by my side as someone walks into and manages to put their ass right in my hand⌠they literally say sorry for bumping into me and I say sorry as well because I reflexively say sorry when some one walks into meâŚ
And I have the problemâŚ
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However, the person being touched can decide to interpret that as a grab. And now itâs my word against theirs.