Back in the 80s, iirc, they used to communicate with one another by posting fares with completely screwed-up fare codes (the codes for restrictions and book-aheads and so forth). If one airline posted such a fare and no other airline responded in kind, the first airline would withdraw the posting. If another airline responded, then they would all suddenly post the new fare to the regular categories. I wonder what they’ve used to obfuscate their collusion lately.
Better they should worry about whether they conspire to keep customer service non-existent. Ride on any domestic carrier and then compare that ride with almost any international carrier. Night and day? Nope, much more different than those two.
Was on a flight from SF a few weeks ago with my SIL, daughter and the grandchildren. Flight was supposed to leave just before 10 am, full flight. It was cancelled with the flight attendants getting ready to board.
We all got on a flight that left about an hour late of its 4 pm departure.
Landed at 12:30 am.
Delta usually asks for feedback.
Never got even as much as a thank you/sorry from United.
Many air traffic controllers (not all) broke their signed contract and broke federal law by engaging in a work stoppage, figuring that the transportation disruption, or threat thereof, would cause government negotiators to cave to the ATC union’s call for a renegotiated contract with better pay and working conditions. (As background, there had been several successful transportation strikes around the USA during the '70s.)
However, the government reiterated to the ATC union that the threatened walkout was illegal and would not be tolerated. When it did occur, the government warned the no-show ATCers to report back to work by a specific date/time or their employment would be terminated. Some of the absent controllers did return to work. Those who remained out after the deadline were indeed fired. That particular iteration of the ATC union was “busted”; however, a reconstituted union with new leadership was formed to represent the controllers.
I don’t agree that the government’s firing of recalcitrant public employees who broke the law caused the later actions by private, for-profit airlines and their employees; I think that deregulation was responsible for airline industry conditions leading to multiple bankruptcys. However, I do agree that those pilots and employees did lose a lot in their subsequent contracts.
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Deregulation caused this, not busting the air traffic controller’s union. That’s a connection I do not see at all.
What busting the air traffic controllers union did was more sacrifice the quality of ATC, and the pay for ATC’s. Reagan was responsible for that for sure. But the current situation was caused by deregulation. This is collusion, it has nothing to do with ATC’s. If the ATC union had never been busted, this still would have happened, no doubt. They are not related.
How about this- I have flown the same route dozens of times thru the last 45 years (visiting my family home).
My original fare was about $400. The fare is still about $400. I can’t estimate how much it might cost now, but somewhere north of $2000. Deregulation democratized flying. It used to be a privilege for well-dressed well-to-do people. Everyone else rode the train or the bus or drove or hitchhiked. Now “everyone” can afford to fly that route that I fly/have flown. It’s still faster than the bus or driving, but it’s just as uncomfortable.
Oh, United is the worst of the worst! United is contemptuous of you for flying United!
A couple of notes. PATCO (the air traffic controllers association) was formed as an association, not as a union, although the US Civil Service Commission later ruled it to be a union, triggering different sanctions when Patco later staged a “sickout” in protest of what they determined to be increasing problems with over-capacity of the air traffic control system. It turned out that they were correct about the problems with the system, but their actions led to the ultimate demise of the “union”. Ironically, they had endorsed Ronald Reagan for President, as had the Teamsters. Reagan had supported their calls for better working conditions while he was campaigning, but turned on them after winning, which should be a lesson to any labor group which supports the GOP.
Those workers who participated in the protests were not only fired, but also barred from working for the federal government ever again, until later pardons under different presidents lifted that punitive measure. The breaking of this union was the turn of the tide for public perception of unions in general and the subsequent weakening of their membership and influence.
There are pros and cons for both sides of the arguments around public sector unions, as you know. Unions make their fair share of mistakes and overreach. But employers and governments bear a share of the problems as well. To me, the bottom line is to look at the outcomes over time. The demise of unions of all types has coincided with the flow of greater shares of the profits to the top few, and to the decrease in wages, benefits, and membership in a solid middle class for the workers. Obviously, the flight of manufacturing overseas is a big factor, which was also enabled by policies enacted or allowed by both parties.