Discussion for article #233513
Here’s a link to the video:
I have to say that this is not a clear-cut situation. The angle and quality of the video make it difficult to see exactly how the victim’s movements could be perceived by officers. But what I notice is that in the very moment before they shoot him, he lowers both hands to one side of his hip, which is a motion consistent with what one might see if someone was attempting to draw a gun. Then, he projects both hands forward in a movement which could be confused again with someone raising and aiming a gun. It is in that exact moment as he raises his hands forward in that motion where the officers start firing.
I’m not taking sides. We don’t know exactly what preceded all of this that would justify officers already having their guns drawn. We don’t know what was said by the suspect and officers prior. It may very well be that the officers mishandled the situation. But it may also very well be that in the moment of the shooting, the officers responded appropriately given the prior interactions of the suspect and the manner in which he turned to face them in the split second before they fired.
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Bottom line: when police ask you to do something just comply with it right or wrong. Getting in a confrontation with police officers when tension is running high it’s never a good idea. There are other venues in which to debate right or wrong. Just comply and keep your mouth shut, let an attorney speak for you. It’s just a rock it’s plain BS, have someone throw one at your head and see what your thoughts are about it.
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I’d have to agree. This guy was throwing large rocks (not pebbles) at cars in busy intersection for starters, then throwing rocks at the cops, then takes off. Plus on the video he clearly is making a move toward his waist, yes.
From there, it’s impossible to judge if there were excessive shots since every video I have seen stops before the shooting. So that still needs to be evaluated for sure, and if these guys kept shooting when there was no danger, that’s a TOTALLY different issue. But when a guy is running from you, then stops and reaches for his midsection, that’s usually a sign he’s going for a gun. And you don’t wait until he pulls it out.
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The real question is how many white guys/youths/kids are shot by police under similar circumstances, meaning this guy who may have been armed with a large rock, the 12 year old black kid in Cleveland who played with or brandished the toy or pellet gun, the guy who argued with police and may have resisted arrest on Staten Island, and on, and on?
The value of life should be the same regardless of color of skin.
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It would have been better had they learned from the experience with Michael Brown that certain elements in the media will use any and all means to excuse away the act. There’s ample enough room for those who have no expectation of proportional response by a trained, armed professional law enforcement officer to justify these police shootings in their minds. Don’t give them more fodder to justify the view that he deserved it.
I can hear Hannity now: “What’s next? It was just an axe handle? It was just a knife? It was just a 9mm? He just shot him in the leg?” If they’re even paying attention, they’re gonna ride this one hard.
The cops aren’t saying that he had a gun or went for a gun so why is anyone speculating that based on a blurry video? The cops aren’t even going for that lie.
3 frickin cops and not one of them could tell the difference of a rock, which is the weapon the guy had and a gun that he didn’t have. And its always shoot to kill and worry about the impropriety possibly never because dead men don’t talk.
The typical defenders are already defending the cops because it hasn’t hit home for them. A dead family member changes everything.
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The guy was throwing rocks. There were 3 cops there. Why couldn’t they use their heads and agree “Joe, you keep the guy talking, Tom you circle around to the left, I’ll circle around to the right. When we have him triangulated we can slowly close in. He only has a few rocks. We can take him down.” WTF is wrong with police these days? Do they no longer think?
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Except that the cops knew this guy. He had a history of rock-throwing. He’d never been known to have a gun.
In short, I’m not buying it. If you actually see a gun, then maybe you’re justified in winging the guy. But you can’t get away with interpreting any motion at all as, “He was going for a gun.” That’s just too easy.
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“…who authorities say was throwing rocks at officers…”
Who conservatives would say was a patriot engaging in revolution against a corrupt government bureaucracy.
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Gunning down a fleeing, unarmed man is despicable, but that’s a shitty slogan. Remember what happened to Goliath?
Intentional suicide by cop?
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That would make me rethink my opinion in this for sure. Do you have a link that shows these cops were familiar with the guy? I did see where he had assaulted a cop before.
And on the video I saw, he definitely turns around, then reaches to his waist before the shot is fired. With 3 cops chasing you, that’s not a good idea.
Potentially. The guy did have serious mental problems. That will be looked at, perhaps he had been suicidal before. I’d still like to see the whole video, we just see the first shots, which seemed legit. But I’d like to see if they kept shooting after he was down. Eventually we’ll see that too.
That is not a crime. If cops are scared shitless every time someone moves his hands somewhere other than skyward, they need to find another line of work.
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From the posted story:
He had been arrested by Pasco police early last year for assault after throwing objects at officers…
In short, he had a history as a poo-flinger, not a shooter.
They’ve got 68 cops, and that was one bust a year ago. I don’t see any indication they knew this guy.
If you are being chased by police, stop, turn around, and then reach for your waist, it is totally reasonable to think you are reaching for a weapon. He reached down first, then he was shot.
I want to see more though, how many shots after he was down, etc. That info is not available yet. Not even the number of shots at this point. Plus from what I understand investigators have asked the public for any other videos available, and I have read some videos have been turned in. So we might get a different angle, or a better quality video. That would be helpful in seeing exactly what his hands did.
It’s possible the shooting was not warranted without more info. It’s also possible this guy was a “suicide by cop” as someone else pointed out. The guy is in the middle of a busy intersection throwing big rocks at cars. Then he throws them at cops.
The kid in Cleveland was not throwing rocks at cars and at cops. Neither was Eric Garner. Those cops clearly should have been indicted. This case has nothing to do with those cases. I’d like to see more video, including how many shots were fired once the guy was down, etc. But each case has it’s own set of circumstances.
Again, each confrontation must be understood in terms of what force is reasonable under the nature of the threat presented.
If there are no instances of police shooting or using deadly force against white youths, but others in which police shoot non whites who present the same or lesser threat in the same locale, than there is a problem related to police perception of race.
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