Discussion: Education Dept. Probes 8 Universities In Light Of College Bribery Scheme

Actually, no. I work in California’s CSU system and we have this conversation continuously. If what we wanted was a better four year graduation rate, or a lower acceptance percentage we’d simply raise the GPA minimums - instantly better graduation rates!

Our job is to provide opportunities for our upcoming generation and a better worker pool for a stronger economy. That means supporting first gen students (i.e. first in your family to attend college), support students transferring from Community College, provide a complete college experience (not just x credits of coursework) and so on.

Sorry if this all sounds a little idealistic and preachy, but it’s important to understand the problem you’re trying to solve if you want to get it right, and I know a lot of idealistic people in this field trying to do just that…

3 Likes

That is awesome, I did not know that.

Locally (silicon valley) we’ve had middle & high school classes for kids that fall through the cracks (not impoverished enough for aid, but not from college families who can support them in the prep mindset & process). Some truly wonderful teachers take the kids on field trips to visit local colleges and otherwise prep them.

On the sad side, we’ve come to needing this (which I support with great shame)
Bill Would Allow Homeless Students to Park Overnight at Community Colleges

3 Likes

Check out the Cal Bridge program, which specifically targets STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) programs. It started as a pilot, just received a $5 million boost in funding this year.

2 Likes

I love that! thank you! YES, everything you have said is just what I want!!!

You are the kind of somebody-who-knows-what-they-are-talking-about that I am happy to hear from.

TPM’s comment system has just suggested I’m talking too much. So I’ll let YOU talk!!!

2 Likes

By the way, what you have said is really eloquent. Do you have it somewhere in a format that can be quoted & shared?

I’m so so so so tired of folks who think college is a glorified trade school to make their kids the richest ones in the neighborhood.

2 Likes

I’ve worked on a couple of CSU campuses and worked with colleagues at multiple other campuses and you find this spirit throughout the system. I’m currently a participant in our campus strategic planning exercise and these ideas are absolutely front and center, if not yet baked enough for public consumption. In the mean time, check out the “About” section for Cal Poly Pomona. As one of two Polytechnic campuses in the system, the focus really is on the “Hands-On, Learn by Doing” philosophy.

https://www.cpp.edu/~aboutcpp/index.shtml

2 Likes

In this case, TPM’s comment system has no idea what it’s talking about.

2 Likes

Betsy Devos must be absolutely aghast that anyone worth less than eight figures would dare have the audacity to think they could buy their kid’s way into a rich parents’ university. Who do those people think they are, anyway???

Beg to differ. A large gift to a University, one that benefits many students in particular and the school as a whole, is quite a different thing than a bribe that is paid to some third party or pocketed by some coach. I actually don’t care that much if the occasional rich brat slips in and gets to be the stupid one in chemistry lab, if it means that there is a modern facility where all the students can work.

On the other hand, we have Charles Koch opening up endowed chairs and Enterprise Institutes and so on all over the place, with the explicit intention of controlling what information is presented to and accepted by economics students. I doubt he’s trying to get any relatives admitted. He’s more interested in displacing real academic theory with his own propaganda.

The critical point in all these cases is transparency. If a donor gets their name slapped on the building, everyone can at least see it. If people think the donor’s kid didn’t get in on his own merits, well, there’s a long line of black kids in selective programs who can fill him in on what that feels like. Lining the pockets of “consultants” and random coaches though is not benefiting anyone except the perpetrators themselves. That’s a cheat that can only take away opportunity from someone else.

1 Like

That is exactly what it looks like she is doing.

At the same time there are all these small colleges that are closing or are in severe financial trouble. The issue isn’t one of seats per se.

The problem is that for many of these elite schools, there is intense competition to get in. Not because students are in danger of getting a better, more challenging education than they might at a slightly less competitive institution, but because the very act of getting in would give them the golden ticket that for the rest of their lives will gain them entry in social circles and job opportunities that simply are not available to graduates of more mundane schools. All the positioning and maneuvering, activities and classes and test prep and so on, is taking place in high school and earlier. Thousands of very deserving applicants won’t go to Harvard, as much as they would thrive there and as much as the school might benefit from their presence. Setting an even higher standard means at a certain point that only the most carefully cultivated students, with near-perfect test scores and for whom a B their sophomore year of high school would have been disqualifying, even have a glimmer or hope. It means that kids, teenagers, cannot make even a tiny misstep. It just means more of these kinds of games, but at a younger age, and believe me those games are already being desperately played by certain parents.

Really there are two issues here. One is the exaggerated importance our society puts on degrees from particular schools - look at where Supreme Court justices got their degrees. It’s not exactly a representative sample of the US population. The other is of the other end, the issue you mention, of requiring an expensive entry into the workforce, an entry that is not available to everyone, even when they can afford it.

2 Likes

Yes on all points. Yes, yes, yes. Even the SAT prep class, although I don’t think it mattered much (he did fine).

Right now many schools give preferential admissions to early applicants, in that they set a standard and as the pool fills they become pickier. There’s also preference given to students with certain skills, so they have an oboe player in the orchestra, or a balance of prospective majors so not everyone is trying to pack into a chemistry lab while a history prof is sitting there twiddling his thumbs. So I don’t know how a straight up lottery would work.

In Japan the method is that you sit for an entrance exam for the school you want to go to, and if you are offered a position - an the decision is pretty much immediate - you have to let them know within two or three days. If your second choice school’s test date is before your first choice, too bad, you can’t take an offer provisionally. It’s typical to go to school after your regular school for a few hours every day, sort of a test prep on steroids. It’s a very different approach. Grades don’t matter. Only that one test.

2 Likes

I agree with the gist of what you’re saying.

As for the following:

Charles Koch is … a personal favorite. I can say that at least in some instances universities have accepted his “generosity” with clear caveats. It’s possible that some of his beneficiary institutions can’t afford to restrict him to his corner in this way, but it’s true that some can’t afford not to.

As for why he makes these large “gifts,” I’ll add one factor: whitewash. He’s well aware that his reputation needs cleaning up, especially among the young people graduated by elite colleges, and some of his donations may help him achieve this purpose.

1 Like

As for the first line I agree, especially if by “the school” we explicitly include the student body.

As for a B in sophomore year of high school, or any other tiny mis-step … I wouldn’t suggest to a kid that this sort of thing precludes her admission into an elite college – if she can show her strengths, and can psychologically handle the same possibility of not being admitted that almost everyone faces.

I’m not saying the cheating is right–she is going after the universities, who were the ones who were scammed. The universities themselves got weaker students and none of the bribe money. This seems like she is aiming to cast blame on the schools themselves.

2 Likes

A few months ago I had the privilege of being in a small group discussion of that very topic with, of all people, Jane Mayer. Which is where I learned about http://www.unkochmycampus.org/. Or maybe that was from her lecture/Q&A beforehand.

He doesn’t give money or set up institutes without major strings attached. And yes, they can refuse his money. But often he doesn’t want his name attached, so I doubt it’s meant to rehab his reputation any more than Fox News was set up to rehab Murdoch’s. Donor influence to the point of outright control of the hiring process, for one thing. He’s not building Chemistry labs. He’s leveraging the reputations and infrastructure of existing Universities, hiring his own people for positions in programs where the continuing funding depends on research results and teaching focus that he agrees with.

2 Likes

[A] Some beneficiaries are powerful enough that the Kochs can’t really have their way with them. These are often the ones where their “gifts” are more for whitewash than for control.

[B] They are certainly doing what you describe where they can get away with it; but they are definitely building chemistry labs as well.

1 Like

Believe me, kids already know. Several years ago I saw the documentary Race to Nowhere. Highly recommended. There’s a trailer on the page but if you have a chance to see it, go. I think it might be available on Amazon now.

The issue isn’t that students don’t realize that they might not be accepted. It’s that they know that in order to even be considered, they have to be pretty near perfect.

2 Likes

Heh, you got me on that one.

Here’s a good overview of what he’s been up to:

The biggest issue is the secrecy surrounding what exactly the strings are he insists on. That, and University folk not wanting to rock the boat. Basically, conforming to their goals and and refraining from criticizing them so as to keep them happy.

2 Likes

Thanks for the links.

And for reporting on the Mayer lecture. (She’s one of the best.)

Comments are now Members-Only
Join the discussion Free options available