Discussion: Did White House Counsel Don McGahn Know Mike Flynn Misled The FBI? If So, How?

[blaneyboy324]

Keep posting, davyjones! Very informative insights. Thanks.

[paulw]

My Occam’s Razor (or Maybe Trump’s Razor) take on this is that trump simply couldn’t keep his lies straight while tweeting. The old story was that Flynn was fired for lying to Pence, but now that he’s admitted to lying to the FBI it sounds better somewhere in the recesses of the presidential mind to say he was fired for that too (worse behavior, more distance etc). And now everyone has to go into retcon mode to bring their version of reality in line with a few random keystrokes.

[cervantes]

Good stuff.

@robertdoty

McGahn too may have outside the group that was filthy with laundered Russian money and meetings about emails, Wikileaks, etc. McGahn isn’t from the Trump organization, and I don’t think he was all that active in the campaign (please correct me if I’m wrong there).

He isn’t from the Trump Organization per se but he and Trump go back a few years.

His uncle was a power-broker in Atlantic City for decades and represented, if not managed, Trump’s interests there.

In 2008 McGahn was appointed by G. W. Bush to the Federal Election Commission. After doing what he could to wreck the Commission, he served as Trump’s campaign counsel in 2016.

[thehatter]

The sheer volume of omissions, misdirections and outright lies suggests that it was the black letter policy of the campaign to conceal when possible and minimize when not any contacts with any Russians or Putin related oligarchs. As such, McGahn ‘knew’ that Flynn lied to the FBI because that was what he was expected to do.

[joelopines]

@tierney, I think this is what you intended:

Yates, who Trump fired from the DOJ for not defending his travel ban, said pointedly in congressional testimony under oath that she did not discuss with McGahn the content of Flynn’s FBI interview.

You owe me the three seconds or so that the double-take took, but I’ll waive payment because the article as a whole was excellent.

[joelopines]

@thunderclapnewman

What a boring prude and killjoy she must be in private.

But there are worse things to be. Her husband and his boss are poster children for worse things, for instance.

[joelopines]

@gromilini

but he lied for Jesus!

What? He lied for one of them Jew-commies?

@tena

Any woman who is ok with being called Mother ______ has problems to start with.

Mother Teresa was a perfect example. Not sure it applies to every Mother Superior, though. And what about Ma Kettle? Does she count?

[joelopines]

@amazedinchicago

This is the thread that runs through politics since Clinton took office in 1993.

Hell, it’s the warp and weft of the whole tapestry.

ETA:

@robertdoty, your take makes perfect sense. The inferences are the same as any good lawyer should draw, and the plan of action fits a careful, if amoral, lawyer’s. Keeping Pence and McGahn out of the loop makes good sense, too. Which is why I’m skeptical: when has that crowd ever been seen to act with good sense?

[deputydawg]

McGahn was Trumps handpicked counsel and savvy enough to read between the lines about what Yates was alluding to regarding Flynn. The moment Yates left the WH he ran to the oval office and told Trump about the serious nature of the briefing and the repercussions the administration faced. The Pence narrative provided them a way to effectively control or stop further inquiries on the subject. I don’t think McGahn was the person who asked Pence to take one for the team.

[daveyjones64]

@robertdoty

VPs aren’t necessarily trusted by the President’s senior advisors (or the President).

He was in charge of the entire transition team. I understand what you are trying to say, but this is a key point. There is no possible universe where the head of the transition team is kept THAT out of the loop. By everybody. Christ, his own allies would be giving him a heads up about what was common knowledge, if only to try and give him a warning flare.

its much easier to believe that Pence was requesting that he be kept out of the communications loop. Which, raises about a gazillion other questions if that’s the case, none of which have a favorable answer for Pence.

@robertdoty

McGahn too may have outside the group

That’s more feasible. But, it falls apart because of your first paragraph, which we both agree upon. He knew that Flynn lied to the FBI after his meeting with Yates. And he told the President this. And the President promptly lied about it, continuing the fiction that it had nothing to do with lying to the FBI. And then pressured the FBI Director to drop the entire matter, in a very awkward conversation. This is why McGahn has hired his own personal criminal lawyer. He is at, the very least, a witness to criminal activity within the White House, if not an actual participant. (and the only reason we aren’t calling him that, is because we are already extending that courtesy and benefit of doubt).

@robertdoty

Would Kushner and Flynn and the folks McFarland was emailing keep the White House Counsel’s office in the dark? You bet. Clients frequently don’t want to tell their lawyers what they are up to.

This is a very key point, and one I believe you are misleading about. The White House Counsel is not anybody’s lawyer, per say. He is there to protect the institution, not the actual person or persons. That is why every President that has gotten into legal trouble, hires their own private attorneys. He certainly was not the legal counsel for any of the folks you listed, and he is not the legal counsel for Trump, the private citizen who was running for President, or Trump the President-Elect.

@robertdoty

So I could totally see a McGahn who (1) wasn’t much “read in” to what was going on with Russia before his meeting with Yates; (2) he leaves that meeting knowing there was a real problem based solely on the wiretapped calls; (3) he assumes Flynn told the FBI whatever he told the VP; (4) Flynn therefore could easily become the target of a criminal probe (lying to the FBI being the door opener); and thus (5) McGahn tells the president "we have a real problem with Flynn, it’s about to get worse, and we need a damage control strategy.

This particular scenario is extremely doubtful. Its much more likely that McGahn knew that Flynn had made the calls to Kislyak with the support and help of all senior aides. He would have to be a complete fool to toil under the notion that EVERY senior aide knew about it, but Trump didn’t. As evidence, his reported reaction to the Yates meeting was remarkably ( because she literally remarked upon it) non plussed, and was instead focused upon just how many other people were exposed. (which as WH Counsel is reasonable…just how bad and deep is my exposure here).

But lets follow through your scenario. And the major problems with it.

@robertdoty

Flynn therefore could easily become the target of a criminal probe (lying to the FBI being the door opener);

As WH Counsel, assuming he has a basic level of competency, which is the assumption we are going on ( and even if he doesn’t, it doesn’t remove the problem), he knows its not a door opener, he knows that its game, set match. He knows Flynn lied to the FBI, and he knows the FBI has wire taps to confirm he lied.(As a tangential comment…if the FBI had wiretaps of Flynn’s calls with Kislyack, its extremely likely they also have wire taps of his conversations with the transition team regarding those calls. Its fair to assume that McGahn wouldn’t have known or assumed this at that point of time, but he should certainly assume it now). Lying to the FBI is a felony. He knows at that point, that Flynn is on the hook, and must go. And once he starts down that reasoning path, he himself has legal problems. Because again, he isn’t an attorney for anybody but the institution of the White House. Tell Trump he has legal exposure as President…sure. Anything involving developing a strategy to deal with that exposure that involves Obstruction…and McGahn is no longer just a bystander.

@robertdoty

The damage control strategy is: (1) fire Flynn but let him know we’ll take care of him; (2) blame it on “lies to the VP”; (3) get the FBI, whatever it’s doing in re Flynn, to shut that inquiry down before anything else gets divulged, cause it’s gonna look really bad no matter what.

This part I largely agree with. Which is a big problem for McCahn. Because if he was that active as a participant, (which is likely, but not a matter of fact), he is part of a criminal conspiracy to Obstruct Justice. One of which his client as the President, clearly did when he pressured Comey to drop investigating Flynn.

@robertdoty

Trump’s task is persuade Comey to let Flynn go since he’s already fired and the poor guy’s long and in many ways distinguished career of service to his country had ended ignominiously.

And that is where McGahn’s own legal problems start, assuming your previous paragraph. If he was part of, or even had knowledge, of a conspiracy to persuade the FBI to drop a case, which we both agree, McGahn at this point clearly believed Flynn HAD lied to the FBI, then he is no longer acting as WH Counsel, but is instead a co-conspirator. If this is true,mere disbarment would be a blessing. He has serious criminal exposure.