I just looked at some of the footage of his shooting into the building.
Obviously I know nothing about guns. I hate them and if there is one thing I’d change in this country would be to ban them, every one.
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It’s not feasible, as a conscious choice, only to wound someone who’s shooting at you. It’s a challenge just to control a firearm well shooting at paper targets. When the target is shooting back the idea is to stop the attacker as soon as possible and end up alive yourself. The training is to shoot at the torso so you’ll have the best chance of hitting the shooter.
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You have to remember that a crazed white guy with an AR-15 is the equivalent of a 12-year-old black kid with a toy pistol. D-A-N-G-E-R-O-U-S!
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He obviously had some issues and didn’t get any help with them…the only good thing about the situation is that he didn’t take anyone else with him.
We have a cohort of angry white men in this nation who are armed and say things like this kid. We need to worry about how many of them are time bombs waiting to go off, and how many are under Trump’s influence enough to decide 2020 is time for a revolution (not a real one, a France 1789 one). They won’t win, there aren’t enough of them, but they have the capacity to do a lot of damage.
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The Lone Ranger mostly shot the sixguns out of the hands of the outlaws who drew down on him. His silver bullets would not cause infection when he winged the bad guy. Those days are as gone as Clayton Moore’s mask. A guy running around shooting a military assault rifle and wearing body armor is begging for a head shot. The cops really don’t know what all might be going on during an active shooter(s) event. It seems like a lot of these shooters do not expect to survive.
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Disagree. That’s why we have so high rates of gun deaths by police.
In Advanced countries, police shoot to kill as an absolute last resort. They shoot to stop the person first, if all other non-shooting methods have failed.
It’s only in war that the first shot should be to kill (and even there, it’s often a warning shot).
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Why? body armor leaves all the extremities exposed, which is exactly where you shoot to incapacitate. Any torso shot is a shot to kill.
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I will bet you ten internet cocktails you cannot find any agency in any nation which promulgates a shoot-to-wound doctrine.
And I will gladly concede the point, having learned something new today, if you can.
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Just for a small start, there’s a few bits of the Rules of Engagement for different countries. Check out Denmark there for a good breakdown of typical escalation-of-force rules in Europe:
Thanks for the internet cocktails, does that mean I need to call out from work?
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"While the Alaskan landscape captivated Ross, so did another discovery: painting. Soon he was painting Alaskan scenes on the insides of gold-panning tins - and selling them to tourist shops as quickly as he could churn them out.
"“I developed ways of painting extremely fast,” Ross said. “I used to go home at lunch and do a couple while I had my sandwich. I’d take them back that afternoon and sell them.”
"Before long, he was earning more money painting than from his Air Force paycheck. It gave him hope that he could have a second career that wouldn’t require him to (gasp!) be mean.
"And, as a first sergeant in the Air Force, Ross’ job was to, well, be mean. “I was the guy who makes you scrub the latrine, the guy who makes you make your bed, the guy who screams at you for being late to work,” he said. “The job requires you to be a mean, tough person. And I was fed up with it. I promised myself that if I ever got away from it, it wasn’t going to be that way any more.”
“So when he retired in 1981, after 20 years in the military, he vowed never to scream again. Instead, he began teaching art for a national art-supply company. The oft-mimicked style began to form.”
Full article here: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-07-07-9007060122-story.html
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Thanks everyone for my modern gun education. UGH!
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Wonder who came up with the misleading photo at top of thread and then the actual gunman ?
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I don’t think there is much doubt about this being a justified shooting.
What would you have done.
There are a lot of things in there about what has to happen before police shoot at a person. There’s nothing there that supports your point: “In Advanced countries, police shoot to kill as an absolute last resort. They shoot to stop the person first.” Nothing you’ve cited mentions any shoot-to-wound policy.
Many sources available, that was just one. Here’s another:
[quote]By contrast, national standards in most European countries conform to the European Convention on Human Rights, which impels its 47 signatories to permit only deadly force that is “absolutely necessary” to achieve a lawful purpose. Killings excused under America’s “reasonable belief” standards often violate Europe’s “absolute necessity” standards.
For example, the unfounded fear of Darren Wilson – the former Ferguson cop who fatally shot Michael Brown – that Brown was armed would not have likely absolved him in Europe. Nor would officers’ fears of the screwdriver that a mentally ill Dallas man Jason Harrison refused to drop.
In Europe, killing is considered unnecessary if alternatives exist. For example, national guidelines in Spain would have prescribed that Wilson incrementally pursue verbal warnings, warning shots, and shots at nonvital parts of the body before resorting to deadly force. Six shots would likely be deemed disproportionate to the threat that Brown, unarmed and wounded, allegedly posed.[/quote]
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OK, fair enough.
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Here’s an actual case I remember from a few years ago of the escalation in action in Germany:
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Not goin’ to the Boogaloo?
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Though I did, that JPEG leaves me wondering if the shooter was a White Tiger Power Ranger fan.
(Assuming standard police ammunition and not high-velocity military rounds) Shots to the torso are very serious medically, but many wounds are not instantly lethal unless the heart or a major blood vessel is perforated.
Parts of the problem with responding to a shooter include the distances involved, the skill of the police officer(s), and the accuracy of their sidearms. That’s why gun training/evaluation targets are of the upper torso - it’s a large enough target for most people with decent training to hit with a handgun. If the police and the shooter are not in close proximity, being able to hit an arm or a leg on a moving target may be beyond their capabilities.
If a police officer is in a position to incapacitate without critical injuries, or otherwise immediately restrain a shooter, that would be the best solution.
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