Discussion for article #244859
Well, one guy got nailed for grand theft auto.
I think this points to two things, though: 1) The abject fear of Democrats over confrontations with the right whether it’s political or criminal; and 2) The lack of value we place on these open lands vs. more expensive to build offices and parks.
On the first one, the reason no one has been arrested is optics, and that’s it. The Bundys and their coorts stole US property by grazing without permits, then violated court orders to pay the fines, then threatened civilians and federal officers with guns. At the least they trespassed, misappropriated resources, ignored court decrees and committed assault against cops. And we’re afraid the right and FOX and the rest will be mad if we arrest these criminals.
Then they take over a public park with guns, require anyone entering the public lands have an armed escort, deny American citizens entrance to public buildings, steal government trucks, tear down public fences, remove legally placed safety cameras, and pave roads on public lands. When Occupy occupied public parks they didn’t deny anyone access, just sat there and chanted and used those awful drums. These folks are acting as if they are the government here. It is an insurrection, and they have committed many crimes in doing it.
Imagine if they did this with a DMV or IRS building, taking over with guns and denying anyone entrance, making people who come in accept armed escorts, ripping out security systems and changing layouts. They’d have been raided a month ago. But this is a public park, and who cares if they pave the land that has archaeological and natural value! It’s not like it’s an office park! With people! Except there are people, and the schools are closed in fear of these criminals.
And that’s what they are. They’re not terrorists, just criminals. It’s time for a siege, let no one in, no resources in (how the hell did we allow asphalt in?) and starve these criminals out. Don’t raid them, just sit there and deny them an exit. Arrest every one that doesn’t leave within 12 hours of the siege being put in place.
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HRC might go get them, right after she’s elected…that’ll give it 3+ years to fade from public consciousness.
But if you think Obama’s going in there during an election year unless Meal Team Six starts doing something more outrageous than just property crimes, you’re nuts. No way is he giving The Enemy Within a rallying point by sending The Law in there to get in a fire-fight.
Also, stop calling them “militiamen”. They are domestic terrorists, insurrectionists, petty brigands and seditious criminal trash.
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Sadly, tragically, while they are, by every definition, terrorists, they have the distinct advantage of being white. Is there any sentient being who doubts that if they weren’t, that building would be a smoldering ruin by now?
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I’m all for setting up a meeting between these terrorists and their 72 virgins, or whatever else might be waiting for them on the other side.
And I think they’d agree-- after all, why waste taxpayer dollars prosecuting and imprisoning them when a few bullets (or one drone strike) could do it much more efficiently and cheaper?
That would be perfect for the ideals of small government.
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Now, if there had been a black “sit-down” or an “Apache-gathering” the Law would have been enforced. But when these guys can come and go and we are told the authorities are playing a shrewd game one has to wonder about “justice in America”.
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By the way do they have bathing facilities? It must be getting pretty raw in there!
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What must not be allowed is a big “aww it’s OK, everyone gets to go home with no hard feelings” hugfest when this is all over. Every Bundy Fundie must stand trial for each and every offense committed during this insurrection and they should have the book thrown at them – no probation, no supervised release – and be sentenced to the maximum for their crimes.
Make these unflushed turdlets sit in the Federal pen for 15 years and have a million-plus in fines hanging over their heads for the rest of their lives.
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I think law enforcement should do its job. Shut off their water, electricity and mail service, blockade the place, and arrest them as they leave. If for no other purpose, it would allow the hardcore fanatics play out their survival fantasies but without the attending media they thrive on. Should take about a week.
Then haul their asses into the court system and, then, straight into the penal system.
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It’s simple. Shut off everything, give them 12 hours to surrender for arrest, and then any inside should be forcibly arrested or killed.
Otherwise, we will continually be wasting resources on play shit like this, when our efforts should directed toward stopping real domestic terrorism.
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they have the distinct advantage of being white. Is there any sentient being who doubts that if they weren’t, that building would be a smoldering ruin by now?
You oughtta dial back the apocalyptic rhetoric and reckless racial accusations. The Federal government does not want a bloodbath. And the President and the Attorney General are black, so please take a chill pill. Smouldering ruin my ass.
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In all likelihood, the Feds were simply unprepared. They’ve been spectacularly inert. There’s plenty of things they could do; they’ve done none of them.
Allowing the kind of abuses you detailed is no way to preserve the rule of law. Why should we be providing a gentle learning experience for would-be territory-grabbers?
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I wonder if that’s part of the problem. If the hammer did come down, how much of the American public would see it as the black president and his black attorney general shooting white people?
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They walk. There may be charges. There may be some sort of trial. More likely pleas to radically reduced crimes. Small fines that are never paid… Community service that is never served, nor enforced.
Law probably requires the government to make a tally of the damages, but for the mere sake of doing it and complying. But no one will be sued, the government will never be made whole. Taxpayers will just eat the bill.
Fast forward a decade. Dozens of these events accumulate, resulting in relatively little sanction. Until finally some group thinks a tipping point has been reached, when attacking a Federal Reserve office, the Vice Presidential residence or some other high visibility yet marginally protected facility is something they’re convinced “the people” will rally around.
You reap what you sow. And right now we’re tending to a fine crop of the crazy.
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Time is running out for this administration to actually put someone in jail.
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Fuck that. There needs to be some accountability!
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Why would shooting ever be involved? Ancient armies perfected the art of the siege centuries ago. No food, no water, no utilities, no freedom of movement, all communications cut, no mail or packages, outside relatives and friends denied any and all access of any kind. Assess known damage at this time and place tax liens on all personal holdings of participants. No one’s home or car gets sold, everyone’s credit essentially frozen. Anyone leaves they don’t get back in, no new participants enter. Loud noise directed at the camp, lights at night, constant drone monitoring, everything filmed. If they shoot first the government can prove it in court, yet no returned fire unless absolutely needed to protect the life of agents.
It’s within the government’s power to end this. They must have their reasons for conducting themselves as they have to this point, although the long leash they’ve granted is puzzling to many.
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Will The Oregon Militiamen Ever Be Brought To Justice?
Simple answer, no or more likely a light slap on the wrist. Would that be the correct punishment absolutely not.
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One wonders what the reaction would be if a heavily group of people took over a park within spitting distance of Washington DC.
Actually, I really don’t. I think we all know that the reaction would be.
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You cannot condemn these people for not following the law while also saying that they should just be shot. If you believe in the law, then you follow the law.
Until these people become a direct threat to someone, it’s fine to let them play army. They aren’t blocking anything essential. And it makes their whole movement look childish and ineffective.
When this ends, and the macho men slink home, that’s the time to start making arrests.
Also, they can’t cut off the power and water, because the pipes would freeze and burst and cause a lot of damage.
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