Discussion for article #245924
Red-faced Bernie seems to have a problem allowing HRC to have the last word in any exchange…ist-ish.
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That is not a bad point. Men seem to reject the notion that women are marginalized in the political process, but it’s true from every angle – the candidates, the questioners, the organizers, the directors, whatever position that doesn’t require fetching coffee.
I just want to say, as a 59-year-old man, I’ve known just as many smart and capable women in my lifetime as smart and capable men. I think it’s high time we let a woman run this damn country, if not right now, then very soon! And, thus, while I support and believe in Bernie Sanders, I refuse to trash Secretary Clinton.
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I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a serious candidate make so many faces as he does during debates. Very bad form, I’d say; rather immature, in fact.
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Always feeling the need to get in the last word is generally a sign of insecurity. You feel you didn’t make your point previously, so you keep repeating whatever it is, or try to restate things slightly. Not very convincing, I’d say.
I thought it was thoughtlessly disrespectful and about as programmed as Marco Repeateo…
If Hillary were a man there would be no question about her resume whatsoever. She has a resume that is by far and away above all the other candidates in this race from both sides. Period.
And I also took notice of the fact that this debate by women moderators with Hillary on stage did indeed put Bernie in the minority. It was not a hard thing to miss. Seriously, how often does that happen? Like, never…
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“There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t support other women.”
If I never hear that again it will be too soon. That is just godawful messaging right there. Someone in her campaign needs to be caned.
“I am not asking people to support me because I’m a woman. I am asking people to support me because I think I am the most qualified, experienced and ready person to be the president and the commander in chief.”
Stick with that exclusively please.
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If Hillary were a man, I’d call him a bully. It’s not her qualifications I question, it’s her ability to get Democrats enthusiastic enough to vote in the general to win. She is the heavy hitter in this contest, and that means she can afford to be a little generous on the order of “Bernie’s ideas are OK, mine are better, and here’s why”. But rather than strike a positive, come together note, she keeps coming out with one surrogate after another to deliver what I am sure she thinks is a devastating attack, but which alienates more of the voters she will need in the general than voters Bernie needs in the primary.
For example, rather than the bizarre attack, “Bernie wants to repeal all your health care”, that both ticked people off and eroded her credibility; rather than the demoralizing pronouncement that single payer will never happen, She could have made an argument like this “Bernie would like to make our health care single-payer; the country isn’t ready for single payer, they’re still getting used to Obamacare. But what you really want is universal coverage, and while Obamacare doesn’t cover everybody yet, I can work on making it cover more.”
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There’s no question about her resume now.
The issue isn’t her resume. The issues with Hillary are
a)enthusiasm - can she get people motivated to turn out to vote in November? If she can’t motivate more people to get out and vote for her than for Bernie now, how can we say she’ll definitely motivate people in November? We’ve seen 2 States so far. Both of them had record voter turnout…
… for Republicans.
That’s not a good sign.
b)trustworthiness - a significant plurality of Democratic voters have said they don’t trust her. That plurality grows if you include independents (to say nothing of the Republicans). In a year when so far, one of the big items in the primaries has been Trump and Sanders getting voters specifically because people feel they say what they mean, a general perception of not being trustworthy is a distinct liability.
c)consistency - part and parcel of (b) is her shifting positions on a number of issues. No, women’s issues aren’t one of them… unless you’re a minority woman whose child was being referred to as a ‘super-predator’ while still in diapers. Or unless you’re a lesbian who wanted to get married back in the DOMA era. Or wanted to serve your country when DADT went in. Sure, there’s a case to be made that she was the First Lady, publicly supporting the positions her husband took, and that Bill took those positions because they were the politically possible thing to do. I’m not gonna fault him for that, and I’m not gonna fault her for that. But it contributes to the perception, and that plays into the Republicans’ line that she can’t be trusted, and lowers voter motivation.
d)judgment - the Republicans aren’t going to question her judgment on the Iraq war vote - unless, you know, it’s Trump, in which case? Yeah, he’ll go there. He’ll go there and jump up and down on it. But no matter who it is, they’re going to hit her on things like the emails. Yes, we’re all very tired of hearing about the non-issue. But that doesn’t mean the people who don’t know it’s a non-issue are necessarily tuning it out. The missteps her surrogates are making doesn’t help with that. Which goes back to (b) and ©.
None of those concerns - NONE OFTHEM - have anything to do with her resume. So, you know, maybe can we dispense with the bullshit ‘if she were a man, there would be no question about her resume’ nonsense? Because she’s not a man, and there’s still no question about her resume, unless you’re projecting some of your doubts on the rest of us. Her resume is absolutely stellar. It’s the kind of resume that, as a writer, I’d give it to a fictional character, and my editor would say ‘nobody’s gonna believe this, it’s too good. Who votes against that? Is she running against Colin Powell in 1996? Maybe make Secretary of State into Secretary of Labor?’ It’s that good. And if the election were all about the resume, she’d have already won. But it’s not. It’s about getting people to vote for you, and why they choose to do it. And let’s face it, the resume is only one very small part of that.
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"I am not asking people to support me because I'm a woman."
Like hell you aren’t. You’ve said it over and over. You’ve said it outright, you’ve said it implicitly. You’ve had your surrogate, the first woman Secretary of State, carve out a special little place in hell for women who don’t. America’s Original Feminist Gloria Steinem had to walk back her outrageously sexist comment that young women who supported Sanders didn’t have the brains to make an intelligent choice and were merely chasing boys. Just. Fucking. Wow.
But hey, the loyal supporters won’t be fazed, because anyone who calls attention to the utter duplicity and looming gutter politics that pervades this campaign are dismissed as misogynists.
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The establishment’s greatest fear (Republicans, the billionaires and the Clinton’s) is that if women, minorities, and the white working class ever get on the same page, the establishment will lose its grip and ability to exploit the middle class and the poor.
Hilary and the Republicans are fighting to keep the corporations, the banks, and the rich in power! Bernie is a big threat to them…and to making the middle class great again!
Sometimes it’s better to leave it alone…and Hillary can’t do that which is one reason she alienates so many.
It’s great that we had women as moderators…unfortunately Fox news has been doing that for a while now and frankly it’s a none issue.
What is a real issue are women’s health rights, equal pay for equal work, women’s equal rights…just as a real issue is equal rights for African Americans and the Hispanic community.
Bernie’s push on economic equality is also a huge step to helping women and minorities. If the 1% robber barons didn’t have all their accumulated wealth and income and instead this money was in the middle class, women workers, Hispanic workers, African American workers, and white workers would all benefit and they’d gain a lot of power as well…and then government won’t be able to ignore them when the White House makes trade deals and etc…
Economic Equality for all…Bernie 2016!
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Gore in 2000? And he paid dearly for it, even though it would have been hard for anyone to listen to Bush’s diatribes without making faces… Still, no experienced candidate should be so open with his emotions, esp. if they belittle the other person on stage.
BTW, it is interesting that Sanders did not embrace the one historic element his candidacy provides for: the first really serious Jewish presidential contender. Sure, there was Lieberman, but his campaing got nowhere very quickly. And Sanders is the first Jewish politician to win a presidential primary. I honestly wonder why he did not mention this at all.
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There is something juvenile in our inability to talk truthfully about the huge cultural change a serious female presidential candidate represents. Especially when the people who are demanding that we pretend that this isn’t a significant change, that brings up all the expected unease and resistance, call themselves “progressives.” Equal political participation – and that includes equal participation in the political power structure – is a founding progressive cause. Without women there would be no progressive progress.