Discussion: Clinton: Sanders Doesn't Really Have A Foreign Policy Network Advising Him

The door’s not closed yet, but the Kissinger thing repulses me. He is a murderer without a conscience.

Her association, which appears to be a friendship and even a collaboration, is troubling in the extreme.
How is it clear that Sen Sanders neophyte judgement is worse than this? A president does not make decisions on their own. Advisers advise first, then there is a decision. Sanders won’t find anyone better to listen to than Henry Fucking Kissinger? Why not have the Himmlers over for tea ?

There is a place for, a necessity for, morals in governance and politics. At this point I would trust Sanders more than Clinton to give that serious consideration. Henry Kissinger. Jesus.

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tao, access to “briefings” does not make a senator an expert in intelligence or analysis, as a survey of the present majority on a number of House and Senate committees demonstrates better than words can convey. Bernie (who was my congressman and is now my junior senator) has never concerned himself very much with even the very general background security briefings provided to all senators, which you seem to think are so valuable but are little more than a courtesy. Secretary Clinton, by contrast, sat on two committees central to foreign-policy considerations, and then was Secretary of State for four years. Note also that President Obama could have nominated anyone he wanted to Secretary of State: he chose Hillary because of her high intelligence, rigorous work ethic, and fundamental compatibility (not identity, just compatibility) of views.

Carlos, Bernie is an OK guy and an effective senator for my beloved State of Vermont, but he will not get my primary vote against Secretary Clinton. He just doesn’t measure up in several areas where Hillary excels. And while some presidents have grown into excellent commanders-in-chief despite a lack of direct experience prior to coming into office, that’s not the way to bet.

President Obama said recently that Secretary Clinton would be “ready to go to work on Day One”. On Day One Bernie Sanders would be ready to wage war on our banking system and the One Percent. Hillary Clinton learned foreign policy from many sources, and Secretaries of State from both parties have consulted Dr Kissinger for decades. Notwithstanding legitimate and serious concerns about some things he has said and done in a very long career, he still knows a hell of a lot. A president getting all his background from one source, or a narrow, ideologically-aligned group of sources, has a recent precedent: George W Bush, who makes just about every historian’s list of the worst five presidents in US history.

Presidents need to cast their nets wide, sift through what they learn, and find their own way by their own lights. I trust Hillary’s judgment on foreign policy over Bernie’s any day, and in just about every other area as well, with the possible exception of knowing how to get naive young people stirred up about issues they genuinely care about but don’t really understand. And North Korea, while a serious nuisance and a festering problem inherited from the Bush administration, is not an existential threat to the United States. Neither is ISIS. Thinking that either of them is an existential threat demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about how the world works. Russia is the existential threat. Russia is where the largest single slice of a president’s foreign-policy and defense attention needs to be directed.

State is the top Cabinet portfolio, above Defense and Treasury, and not by accident. President Obama provided Hillary the best possible preparation (in addition to her already deep and broad knowledge of economic and social policy) for the Oval Office, and she did an excellent job at it. If she is the Dem candidate and defeats the GOP candidate, maybe she’ll offer Bernie the Veterans Affairs portfolio: that seems to have been an obsessive interest of his for some time now. Maybe he could do well there. However I expect to be voting for him for senator again next time around. Either that, or he’ll retire at the end of his present term.

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I read the article. Pretty weak tea – minimal substance, lots of leaps of logic, and generally an exercise in turning nothing into smear. And for the record, I think Kissinger’s a war criminal, and wish Hillary’s foreign-policy impulses were more like Obama’s.

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I absolutely agree with everything you say.

I think HRC’s support of the Honduran coup is probably the most damning instance of a realpolitik, neo-imperialist mindset. But beyond that, you have to be out of your mind politically to say that you’re being counselled in your actions by a war-criminal.

I was at a dinner at the house of a man who had on his wall an original George McGovern poster from 1972 when he worked for him in LA. It was beautiful. McGovern was a good man who only carried Massachusetts and DC in that race. We got Nixon again instead and we all know how that ended. Anyone who voted for McGovern should be proud. Sometimes it’s just about doing the right thing. Voting for Hillary because we might get coal in our stockings at some future Christmas just doesn’t feel true. We got Nixon, and a lot more of Hillary’s BFF Henry K, but voting for McGovern, primary and general, was the right thing to do. Hell, voting for Mike Dukakis was the right thing to do. He’s still around, still doing honest work that helps people. There is a whiff of grift around everything the Clintons get near. I’d just as soon not fall under their stinkeye.

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W Bush had a Foreign Policy Network. Lot of good that did.

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It’s pretty clear HRC has been making serial mistakes in the last days of this NH campaign. Going negative may help her in the short term, but how is it helping insure that “the kids” will get behind her in November? Maybe her campaign is partly aimed at controlling the Dem machine after December, win or lose. There’s always 2020.

Libya, anyone, Bueller?

No, there isn’t. Hillary or another Democratic nominee would be running against an incumbent Republican POTUS; incumbents rarely lose. Team Clinton is savvy enough to realize that 2008 was her best chance to win the general election, and that 2016 is her last chance to win against greater odds.

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Genocide expected.
Coalition of 27 European and ME states.
Ghaddafi deposed (no U.S. boots on ground).
Arab Spring. Free, democratic elections; first since 1951. Moderates elected.
Empire-building eschewed.
2012 Libya destabilizes.
Dec 2014 Libya considered non-state.
Dec 2015 Agreement to form unified interim govt. New elections considered within 2 years.
Jan 2016 ceasefire called.

Is Libya complicated? Without doubt. Influence of ISIL makes it more so.
Is it a failure? Jury is still out IMO.

jw1

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Last chance? Agreed.
Greater odds? Not against this ® field.
BHO made the odds impossible in 2008 IMO.

jw1

I’d say by April we will know if Bernie is a viable contender. Let him worry about his future cabinet and inner circle after he pays his taxes.

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Personally I’d be fine with that. but I suspect quite a few voters aren’t. He needs to up his foreign policy game sooner rather than later.

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Agree about Obama’s strength in the primary. My point was that had Hillary been the Democratic nominee, she would have had an easyer race against the Republican nominee; 2008 was a change-the-White-House Democratic year even before the economic crash.

Granted the 2016 Republican field looks preposterous and weak to us, but in FauxAmerica, that is perhaps not the case. And 2016 is another change-the-White-House Republican year. The consistent pattern of two-term POTUS party swaps is not inevitable, of course, but it is consistent. That’s why I think the November race for either of our candidates will be running uphill into a headwind.

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The LEAST likely aspects and policies of a proposed Bernie Sanders administration are the domestic policy agenda items. More precisely, the vast majority of them are DOA out of the gate with a Republican majority House, revolution or not. Bernie Sanders’ area of least expertise is his grasp of military and foreign relations, where he would have far more influence, and less involvement from Congress to take action.

Tell me again why I am supposed to be falling all over myself to stop supporting Hillary Clinton, whose voting record is 93% identical to Bernie Sanders’ record?

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Yet not a SINGLE one of his 99 fellow Senators has endorsed him. Out of 46 Democratic caucusing Senators, Hillary has been endorsed by 39 of them, and it’s not because she is some ghoulish Kissinger doppelganger. It just isn’t.

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Point taken.
But one unexpected advantage HRC may have this fall-- if she is the nominee-- is an unexpected crossover from sane people who will refuse to vote for any of the incompetents. I’m getting this drift even here in Texas.

Enthusiasm on the ® side for any of Cruz/Rubio/Trump will wane. Especially if it’s Rubio or Cruz.
More so from those whose candidate loses the nomination.
A segment of ®s will recoil from electing an Hispanic.

And while we’ve got our own issues with (D) primary animosities-- so far it’s still mostly adult disagreements.
The ‘mean-girl-clique mentality’ on the other side will depress ® turnout IMO.

It’s going to be the weirdest election season of my lifetime.
I’m just not sure historical analogies can be applied.

jw1

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So, you are a Bush voter still?

Your feigned ignorance of the rather historic achievements and focus of the Obama Administration’s last 7+ years is an insult to every whose lives have been not ended in war, calamity, lack of healthcare, ability to afford gasoline, or who now has a job.

Aren’t you interested in helping this progress even a little, or does stomping your foot and demanding purity trump all of that?

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“to every whose lives have been not ended in war”

WTF does that even mean?