Lets focus on the candidates and issues.
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1000x this^
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I agree with you, but pragmatically speaking, itâs kind of irrelevant. Republicans like asshole candidates who say asshole things, which is why Trump is winning. Now, should Trump be held to the same standard as Clinton? Yes. But for the people who like Trump, they donât actually care. So, as Democrats, we need to hold our candidates to a high standard regardless of what the Republican standard is. Kind of like how we hold our military to a higher standard than Al Qaeda or the police to a higher standard than criminals.
Ah yes, the old âIâm an asshole who doesnât swear so donât swear at meâ chestnut. Tell you what: donât be an asshole and I wonât call you an asshole.
Sorry. I have little tolerance for someone attacking me personally for a political opinion. Back to the matter at hand.
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Yes â lets do that. The issue at hand is that what appears to me to be a Sanders supporter confronted Hillary at at a fundraiser and demanded she apologize for words she used years ago. She apologized. So are we going to go on and on about whether or not she is a racist? Who does this serve? Its clearly a campaign tactic being floated by some Sanders supporters. That is their right, and it is my right to push back when I see that its not the issue of the wisdom of the Crime Bill that is their point â which the Clintonâs even agree was a mistake, but the shaming and sliming them as racists that is their point.
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Black Lives Matter protesters have heckled Hillary AND Bernie. Unless you have evidence that this was a Bernie supporter, youâre just making stuff up.
I have been called a racist for things Iâve written and my initial response was to bristle and become defensive. âIâm not a racist!â was my natural response. But I took the time to listen to people I trusted who explained to me that being called out for racism is not the same thing as being a card-carrying Klan member. If you are White, you have no doubt done or said something racist in the past. The point isnât to brand that person as a racist who should be shunned. Itâs to get that person to wake the fuck up and realize what they said was a huge problem. Rather than simply brush aside the criticism as politics, Clinton and those defending her should take a step back and reflect on why this woman felt compelled to confront her with her own words. Itâs part of unpacking our privilege and educating ourselves.
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In 1996 I was opposed to gay marriage, but today I adamantly support gay & LGBT rights. What someone believed 20 years ago only matters if they still believe the same thing now. I doubt Barack Obama would have selected HRC as his SOS if he believed she was a racist. And I doubt John Lewis would have endorsed HRC if he believed she is a racist. Iâm pretty sure those two would know a racist if they saw one.
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So you think she hasnât changed at all? You think her support of Obama is all for show? I see a big difference in the way she is conducting her campaign this time. I think she is the best candidate to continue building upon the policies of the Obama administration â and so does he. Hillary responded to the confrontation by considering her words and apologizing. So, I have to ask, why keep harping on it? We have REAL RACISTS running in the GOP. Why try to keep hanging that around her neck? Its ultimately self-defeating because I am sure, in the end, you do not want to see a weakened democratic nominee going into the general election. And she will be our nominee.
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As a Hillary supporter I agree that this was insensitive wording and that she is right to be challenged on it now, particularly by BLM activists. I saw the video of the (civil) confrontation and Hillary was calm and considerate of the young woman who interrupted her speech, promising to address her concerns directly a bit later in the event. Unfortunately the young woman kept talking over Hillary and was escorted out. Now Hillary says she regrets her choice of words, and honestly, what else can she say? Out of context and in todayâs environment, they ring wrong and are regrettable. She says she wouldnât use the same words today, which I believe means sheâs also educated herself and rethought things since then, and I believe her. All told, itâs better for this to come out now and be dealt with, because thatâs what campaigns are about.
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Not the greatest thing Hillary ever said, thatâs for sure. But at some point, Bernie will have get off the quad and deal with his own past statements.
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UR so right!..If âBlacks Live Matterâ, you can backdate this acknowledgement to the 19-Nineties, and the death of black kids en-mass, remaining unchanged in the streets of Chicago and multiple urban cities.
That description is mild and HRC should not continue this apologia!
Hillary didnât express support for gay marriage until 2013, a year after Obama did. As I said, I get why it was politically risky, but donât you think that after the President gives his support in an election year that she could have jumped on board?
Again, nobody here has said she is a racist. Not one person. Find where anyone has said she is racist, please. What I have said is that her comments were racist. And there are plenty of White people (myself included) who have made racist comments or held racist opinions without harboring David Duke-style opinions.
Where did I say this?
First of all, this is on the article about the confrontation. Itâs not like itâs been six months since this article came out and people are still talking about it. The issue is fresh and we are discussing it. Period.
Because as Democrats we should be aware of the issues that affect our constituents. We cannot take Black people for granted. We should be giving equal weight to their concerns and their issues (meaning the issues that fall outside the usual Democratic issues that are important to them).
Agreed. I also think itâs good because it will cause Democrats to confront these issues on a broader scale. The idea that we should just ignore it or tamp it down is myopic. We build strength in confronting our weaknesses.
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Did Sanders apologize for saying this about the bill?
It is my firm belief that clearly, there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.
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My post was about her comments in 1996 that many people will use to accuse her of being a racist. And I donât give a fuck why or when she decided to support gay rights, as long as she does so now.
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I donât believe that Hillary Clinton is a racist. At least not in the classical sense. But she clearly is -and was- willing to use race as a political tool.
To me this points to her main personal issue in the electorate, her lack of trustworthiness. The time was right 20 years ago for a different message than the one message she uses today.
As to your point about personal changes. Yes. We need to allow for people to grow. The gay issue seems very fair here as Hillary has made pretty much the same journey you have tread.
There is a big difference though in that I donât believe that either Hillary or you would ever have used terms like super-predatory homosexuals as a rational for legislation on gay marriage.
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Well, it might not be quite as bad as âsuperpredator,â but the âDefense of Marriage Actâ certainly implied that LGBT folks were âattackingâ marriage.
But I agree, I donât think Hillary even remotely deserves the title âracistâ (nor does Bernie). Which is more than we can say about the current GOP frontrunner.
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Hereâs the Sanderâs speech from the congressional record. Its definitely not âsuper-predatorâ comment:
[quote]Speaker, a society which neglects, which
oppresses and which disdains a very significant part of its
populationâwhich leaves them hungry, impoverished, unemployed,
uneducated, and utterly without hope, will, through cause and effect,
create a population which is bitter, which is angry, which is violent,
and a society which is crime-ridden. This is the case in America, and
it is the case in countries throughout the world.
Mr. Speaker, how do we talk about the very serious crime problem in
America without mentioning that we have the highest rate of childhood
poverty in the industrialized world, by far, with 22 percent of our
children in poverty and 5 million who are hungry today? Do the Members
think maybe that might have some relationship to crime? How do we talk
about crime when this Congress is prepared, this year, to spend 11
times more for the military than for education; when 21 percent of our
kids drop out of high school; when a recent study told us that twice as
many young workers now earn poverty wages as 10 years ago; when the gap
between the rich and the poor is wider, and when the rate of poverty
continues to grow? Do the members think that might have some
relationship to crime?
Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people
in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and
sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order
to protect society from them. But it is also my view that through the
neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of
priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future
of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence.
{time} 1650
And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison
more people per capita than any other country, and all of the
executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can
either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs,
rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails.
Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one
of hate and vengeance.[/quote]
Thereâs none of the dogwhistling, nor clearly any sign of racial divisivness in Sanderâs remarks.
Sanders, for his part, says he voted for the omnibus bill because it contained the original Violence Against Women Act. I personally dislike the use of omnibus bills because of the dilemmas created.
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One is a war criminal who has had his drones murder a few hundred people and one isnât.
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[quote=âemilianoelmexicano, post:11, topic:33478â]
We do tend to not vote in off years. And even in certain âonâ years (The Nader 2000 election screw up).
[/quote]The screw up in 2000 wasnât that Nader ran, itâs that Gore made no attempt to reach out to potential Nader voters and instead treat them/us as a captive audience. He even doubled down and put Joe F. Lieberman on the ticket, which was a big âfuck youâ to both the left and Bill Clinton.
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What, you mean like how orgasms will ward off cancer? Nah, letâs get back to trashing HRC.