Discussion: Clinton: It's 'Beyond Absurd' For Sanders' Top Aide To Blame Me For ISIL

[chammy]

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The Obama Doctrine

[pshah]

I didn’t realize Secretary of State trumped the Presidency.

Goodness, I wonder how he feels about President Obama, - who, you know - actually sets the policy.

[tflick]

If he’s going to rescue his reputation this needs to stop.

I was thinking about that the other day. I wonder, if in all of this, he considers his place in the Senate. I’ve got to wonder if his recent scorched earth tactics have pissed off some of the Democrats in the Senate and further, if they do end up retaking the Senate if said tactics might cause Sanders to be marginalized by whomever the Majority Leader is. Clearly, by the endorsement count, Democratic Senators don’t support him anyway, but this can’t be helpful in how they view working with him.

[erratum]

And what so many individuals forget is their own part in it. Remember the tax break Bush gave businesses who bought SUV’s in those years, the preponderance of gas guzzlers on the roads, the drool over Hummers. Ann Coulter lauded our right as Americans to rape the earth. The war was about OIl? Absurd! Talk about heads in sand. So many voted for these things, or voted for them by simply not voting.

[carlosfiance]

The Iraq war was going to happen independent of what (D)s did or didn’t vote for it.

Do you think about what you post, jw1? ¨Well, yeah, I voted for the war, but it was gonna happen anyway!¨

Profile in courage, eh?

[just_between_us]

What kendyzdad said.

[jw1]

There is only one problem with your comment - it is not true.

But it marinates well under tinfoil.

jw1

[morris1030]

I agree totally and both Weaver and Devine are leading Bernie into what can be a national tragedy.

[jw1]

As an American leader during the unfolding of these events, do you get to point to circumstance and throw up your hands? Nope.

Though after the fact?

Being of the mind that people who make, or are a part of making, the highest-level decisions that affect millions of lives-- and are imperfect beings? I can forgive those who recognize, accept, and apologize for the mistakes they’ve had a hand in.

If you cannot? That is your prerogative.
Your refusal noted.

jw1

[upwitoulz]

Has Bernie walked this back? It’s hard to imagine a more vicious, underhanded, and utterly false smear than this one, at least between fellow* Democrats. I can just hear this line being parroted ad nauseum until November on Fox, talk radio and by various yahoos in Congress, etc. Bernie doesn’t just need to walk it back, he needs to stomp on it big time and publically reprimand Weaver for such an irresponsible statement.

[jw1]

Asking people to accept responsibility for their actions is so radical, amirite?

Been done. Publicly, profusely, on multiple occasions.

jw1

[kendyzdad]

You know, I had been blaming the Bernie supports on TPM and Political Wire for their tone and tenor, thinking it was them and not blaming the campaign for it.

But now I can see that it’s more than just a few morons on the Internet. It’s coming from the campaign.

[west_of_the_cascades]

I believe that the Sanders campaign also expects Clinton to take responsibility for the common cold, all of those days when it’s rainy and cold and you just don’t want to get out of bed, and for Bill Buckner’s error in the 1986 World Series.

[mattinpa]

And what so many individuals forget is their own part in it.

If you’re clever enough at argument you can often pretty plausibly implicate anyone in anything. But if you’re going to pin the Iraq War on people you have to start at the top and work downwards and at some point the responsibility gets pretty tenuous. Colin Powell has a lot to answer for in this. HRC and the other 81 Democratic senators have less. In the years before the war I drove long distances myself every week or so to go fishing. So I have some responsibility too. But if I applied for a job and another applicant started screaming that I had to take responsibility for the war I’d think that was mostly a disingenuous thing. You can make plausible arguments for legitimate reasons, or you can say any damn thing you think might help. It’s an ethical choice.

[azjude]

“But, you know, ISIS was primarily the result of the vacuum in Syria caused by Assad, first and foremost, aided and abetted by Iran and Russia. So I think that let’s put responsibility where it belongs.”

That is the difference between a foolish old man that will say anything to gain his presidency dreams, and an actual POTUS!

[mattinpa]

I can just hear this line being parroted ad nauseum until November on Fox, talk radio and by various yahoos in Congress, etc.

Let’s not forget that Trump, pretty much completely without proof, claims he opposed the war. He’ll be yelling that loud and long, and being able to quote the Sanders campaign really, really doesn’t help. I’m 100 percent focused on the outcome here. Anything that helps Trump hurts this country PERIOD.

[azjude]

Yes…limp ones!

[jw1]

Do you think about what you post, jw1? ¨Well, yeah, I voted for the war, but it was gonna happen anyway!¨

Stop it. Just stop. Really Carlos?
Are you saying if HRC did not vote for the AUMF-- Bush and Cheney would not have invaded Iraq?
Are you daft?

All she is guilty of is casting a vote (along with Republicans and a minority of Democratic Congressmen) that allowed the whole tragedy to unfold.

Do you ever get cramps from typing the same thing probably 100-to-150 times since last August?

You are a one-trick poster when it comes to Sec Clinton.
On occasion you toss in some relative comment to soften it.
But your monologue barely varies-- and we are always nearly the same audience.
Don’t you ever wonder how goofy you must sound? Day in, day out?
To open every Clinton article swinging that same damn dead cat?

And I’ll apologize for the ‘one-trick’ comment.
It’s two-tricks. I overlooked ‘Goldman Sachs!!1!!’

jw1

[26degreesrising]

Weaver needs to learn the art of insinuation, though I didn’t see this interview and can’t imagine there’s no context to the one line quote we get here. I imagine there may have been something to mitigate the seemingly clumsy flat statement here. But whether there was context or wasn’t, I expect shrieking will commence here shortly and last into the night, and vehement defense of Clinton will by sheer force of number of comments (or sheer force of brutality and obscenity) win the debate.

But Clinton’s response isn’t the whole truth. It’s very skilled, it’s got all the buzz words Clintonians (and neo-con types like Bill Kristol) like to seize on…Iran, Russia, Assad. A veritable string of bad actor pearls.

But you can’t erase Libya from the ISIS narrative and be truthful at the same time. According to Al Arabiya, ISIS has doubled in strength and size in Libya over the past year: “the largest ISIS branch of eight that the militant group operates outside Iraq and Syria.”

ISIS grows in Libya, but local militias fight back

In addition, Libyan weapons – inadequately secured to the point you may as well call it never having been secured at all – have been disseminated all along the African/Middle Eastern arc of instabilty: fears currently center on Gaddhafi’s anti-aircraft missiles as it’s likely only a matter of time before jihadists acquire the capability to use them (think: civilian airliners).

How Gaddafi’s anti-aircraft missiles are falling into the hands of Isis

So, yes, Iraq was the fountainhead, and the mess that used to be a place called Syria is a contributory factor as well. But you can’t leave the cock up that is Libya out of the equation. It’s another a failed state we own (along with our NATO allies). But we didn’t follow the Colin Powell rule. We broke it and had no plan for day 2 at all.

[centristdem]

Very soon (like yesterday) Senator Sanders should start receiving phone calls from People Who Matter telling him (not asking) to cease and desist with extreme and/or integrity attacks on Secretary Clinton. These People Who Matter must be prepared to go public should he not listen. People Who Matter are (in ascending order) Senator Elizabeth Warren, Vice President Joe Biden, First Lady Michelle Obama, and President Barack Obama.