Discussion: Clinton: 'I Would Have Won' But For Comey, Russia, Voter Suppression

TPM Article Topics
#245

It’s more interesting catching up to the comments on the Kushner story.

Absolutely! Trump is dangerous in so many ways. I get the feeling he played poor Jared for the patsy. Ivanka may be sleeping alone in the near future. Mob-like you know, child abuse that doesn’t end well for either the abused or abuser. And Jared was so willing to help. Add in Jared’s arrogance and lack of respect for government and those that keep it running, and in some cases, those that hide in the shadows and put their lives on the line, and you have trouble, big trouble.

#246

Randy, the voters always suck, and they are always the best people in the world, depending on whether you end up on the losing or the winning side. All I know is that there in no percentage in politics whining (not saying you are) about how dumb/ignorant/racist/misogynist/homophobic/venal/greedy/vain/ugly/smelly/uneducated they are. They are what they are, each election, in all their glorious imperfection, and a competent politician finds a way to appeal to a majority (with the electoral college in mind of course for the presidency) in order to get his or herself elected. The “Deplorables” did not suddenly appear like mushrooms after a rain; Obama won enough of them to win twice in a very racist country.

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#247

Superwoman Clinton to the rescue… again!! I would dearly like to see that happen.

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#248

Agree, As someone recently noted, half of America now gets their news from Facebook.

I don’t know where that leaves us, but having so many misinformed and willfully ignorant people seems to pose a huge hurdle.

BTW, I was hoping against hope this thread would not turn into a Hillary bashing or Bernie bashing thread, but that seems inevitable with so many strong feelings still out there.

I hope Democrats can get through this and unite in time. There are bigger fish to fry – our nation is in crisis.

@darcy

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#249

Clinton is right but she ignores the truth that she and her establishment supporters want everybody to overlook. The race wouldn’t have been close if she had run an inclusive forward looking campaign.

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#250

No doubt Hillary Clinton would’ve won but for Trump Russia collusion and treason.

She’s the rightful President of the United States.

As the #trumprussia matter proceeds, I think she should look into a legal challenge to invalidate the election. The case of first impression could be based on fraud and foreign interference on both the voters and the members of the electoral college, as the electors are not strictly duty bound to reflect the precise will of the people but have some discretion to use their own judgment subject to bad faith elector laws. The argument could be that if the electors knew that the EV winner was colluding with Russians to rig the result they would’ve never voted him in because they would’ve determined that Trump was incapable of fulfilling the oath of office. That manifest fraud and criminality could be the justification to reconvene the electoral college.

SCOTUS could reconvene the electoral college to re-vote and the EC could vote her in. SCOTUS could remove Trump from the equation or impose a 100% penalty/deduction on such votes cast. I suppose the EC could technically submit others for nomination (e.g., like Kasich, Biden Bernie), but SCOTUS could require that they nominate HRC b/c she was on the ballot in '16. They could also declare that all electors who voted for her are bound to her or offer a limited opt-out.

Fraud and misrepresentation has a long tradition in American tort law, so I think those concepts could be used her to make an effective argument to reconvene the EC.

I would also like to shoehorn the other legal argument that the winner-take-all allocation method for the EC is unconstitutional and the more constitutionally permissible option is proportional allocation (much like our Dem primary does for pledged delegates).

#251

Guess what, Hillary is human, just human in fact. She needs closure and to vent and air things out just like any other person. She just happens to be the most respected and popular woman alive so there isn’t much she does that is in private.
She also shoulders great responsibility for what is happening now, for her supporters and our Party’s future.

I personally can’t imagine what she feels. The disappointment, the feeling of being robbed-right in front Jebbus and all and yet is helpless to fight it on her own.
I’d be lost for words and struggling as well.

I think her sense of loss is in parts. Partly, she knows that she was hi-jacked and the loss is more of a theft than anything.
Second, she had plans, real, deep plans to help this nation and us. She had that vision taken away and she knows now that that was her last chance.
She too is an American, one that is having to live through this dismantling of all that we love by a hateful, vengeful, incompetent, petulant and overgrown man-baby.

Anyone that thinks that all she cared about is just winning and that the horseshit that she felt entitled is real, is geared to hate the Clinton’s first and block out all reasoning and fact that disproves that otherwise.

I was gutted for months, and I’m just some local yocal that wanted everyone to be able to have nicer things. Not the person that dedicated a lifetime to be able to give that to me and all.

As Hillary led us to believe in ourselves again, so shall she lead us in the grieving process. I’m over the shock phase and I think that she is too. We are now dealing with it and preparing for the important phase, get back in the game and fight.

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#252

Good analysis in that article. It doesn’t support your “two out of three” claim, but does indicate a small statistical basis for conjecture that “bloody nose” grudge votes for Johnson / Stein may have swung the EC away from Clinton. Caveat “ecological fallacy”. Thanks - a good read.

#253

It’s a rickety bridge shrouded in perpetual fog across the bottomless canyon between “qualified for the job” and “hired for the job”.

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#254

She should stay away from that subject altogether. Coming from her, it just sounds like whining. It sounds like collusion, obstruction and espionage coming from investigative and intelligence entities. Let them smite the criminal.

#255

appropriate avatar :smile:

#256

I’m no constitutional scholar, but I think your postulated drama has absolutely no basis in law.

#257

If Trounce gets his just desserts, Hillary will be ever so slightly vindicated.

The fact that his Presidency has been and continues to be a disaster and he has to whine about it constantly because he just isn’t automatically loved, is somewhat satisfying but won’t ever heal the deep cut of being the #1 victim of voter and election fraud.

Comey is a whole 'nother issue. How dare he. No matter his political bias or reasoning, his job was to be non-political and unbiased. He’s been fired and has damaged his own reputation but again, there really is no making this right.
Comey is in Colin Powell territory. He’ll go on living with this with his head up while always knowing that he personally did a huge disservice to the nation that he was sworn to serve and protect.

The last shreds of a reputation that they try to protect isn’t worth protecting. They’d be better men if they just spilled the beans, fessed up and then quietly went about helping to repair what they have wrought.

#258

It’s a case of first impression. Our elections have generally been above board and lacking in foreign interference and treason, but there’s a first time for everything. This would be a novel theory of applying a fraud/misrepresentation analysis to ask that the EC reconvene because they have a right by law to exercise some range of judgment in determining who becomes President, and could not render that judgment correctly because of Trump-Russia collusion,.

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#259

:clap: :clap:
Here!..Hear!!

#260

Yeah, the Republicans would never have gone after that guy!

#261

How about actually setting foot in the swing state as opposed to blaming voter suppression?

The fact she had the audacity to name Wisconsin, a state she didn’t bother to visit, is a perfect example of why she lost.

But she spent a whole lot of time in California. The state that gave her the popular vote win. Folks in California are more likely to contribute to the campaign.

It’s really not that complicated.

#262

The commenters there are the worst. I guess they see “Washington” in the name and go crazy. It’s nuts. Been that way for a long time.

#263

image.png1200×1142 1.34 MB

If this doesn’t tell you that people really don’t like her I don’t know what else to say!

#264

I’m sorry. You left out the two most important factors that was absolutely NECESSARY and REQUIRED for Comey, Russia and Operation Crosscheck to have worked. The two factors without which none of the above would have mattered.

23% of the population are sociopaths. 75% of millennials had a hissy fit and stayed home to take selfies and pictures of their veggie burgers.

I know I didn’t buy the years and wasted hundreds of millions of dollars for republicans to politically masturbate and call it “investigations” into Hillary’s Benghazi and email “scandals.” If there had been a there there Reagan would have been hanged for letting over 200 marines to die in Kobhar towers in Saudi Arabia. And working from home has never been a crime nor has sending an email that was LATER classified with a little c.

But tens of millions of so called Americans did. They also believed Hillary ran a child sex ring out of the basement of a basement-less pizza shop in DC.

So none of the Comey, Russia, Voter suppression would have mattered if we didn’t have such dumbass fucking stupid people. Where did we get such mentally challenged, intellectually fraudulent sociopaths? The sociopaths were created by right wing media. The lazy man bun wearing millennials with selfie sticks up their asses were created by Facebook who confused them with National Enquirer type stories of New World Order Killery all created by a 400lb dude sitting in his mommy’s basement in Moldova.

If you want to see the problem in America don’t look at the Koch’s. We created them too. Look in the mirror.

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