Discussion: Boeing Didn't Tell Anyone When It Removed Emergency Sensor In 737s

With sich great paychecks should come great responsibility.

And he should be the first one in prison.

But of course he won’t, will be put out to pasture with a golden parachute

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Do South West and other airlines who bought the 737s have any legal recourse they could take against Boeing? Like willfully endangering their employees and customers?

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“Regulations? We don’t need no stinking regulations!” - Alfonso Bedoya Trump

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There is an integrated ecosystem built around a manufacturer’s aircraft and services. A disruption in Boeing could be fatal for the customer. I cannot think through the ripples this would create.

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Corporate culture. You need a lot of people convincing themselves that something will never happen, or that some safety item isn’t necessary. Aircraft development being what it is, the paper trail is enormous and pretty easily accessible once the lawyers get involved.

There are some jobs they shouldn’t let dynamic modern corporate executives anywhere near.

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…including the new head of the FAA.

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Maybe?

He made a 30-year Boeing exec Acting Secretary of Defense.

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All the regulatory agencies have headed down this road.

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This is clearly a bad thing, and I don’t mean to say otherwise. But a curious factor in all this for me has been the input of a former airline pilot, who insists that these crashes – despite the messed-up systems – are a matter of insufficient pilot training and reaction to the problem. He says these incidents would be highly unlikely to occur at a U.S. airline, and that much of the issue is hype.

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Dear Lord what a frickin’ boneheaded move this was. So my first question is who made this decision, no need to ask why, just who? Then does this person have flight training? Today’s airline pilots use instruments to fly planes. They are not flying by the seat of their pants like in days of old. They can’t stick their head out of the window to see what’s really going on. And I agree with those above that said the CEO and other VP that kept signing off on these decisions need to be the first to go in front of judge.

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I remember that assertion, but if the trainers didn’t know that the warning lights weren’t there, and it was still mentioned in the training manual then it falls squarely onto Boeing.

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Yes, I definitely agree. Just wondering if at any point the reporting will incorporate that. So far, not really.

I suppose the link with the Heading: “According to a Wall Street Journal report” would be read by sensible people as citing the source of those words. Someone looking for controversy might choose to ignore that.

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When ‘‘greed is good’’ and ‘‘corporations are people’’ – who can buy their own custom-fit legislation – what could go wrong over time?

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For the past 50 years at least, there’s been an ongoing argument between different camps on the subject of pilot error. Some people are about training and “better” pilots, while others are about systems that reduce the need for pilots to carry out complex split-second sequences of actions to keep everyone alive. So yeah, if every pilot is really good, perfectly trained and having an on day, no problem. But modern air safety guidelines don’t work that way.

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There’s a method to cite things correctly. It’s called “quotation marks”.

I did examine the texts, and there are minor differences which move it out of the “direct plagarism” realm. Which is why I deleted my text.

He has his head up his chauvinist ass and would probably like to retract his statements. After the ET 302 crash Boeing finally got around to running this MCAS/AOA failure scenario in the simulator, using experienced MAX pilots from multiple US carriers. Some failed to save the plane, and it was determined that when the failure scenario happens the only way to save the plane is to turn off the electric trim motor within 40 seconds. After 40 seconds there is so much load on the stabilizer that it can no longer be trimmed with the manual wheels so you stay in the dive.

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APA demands simulator training for MAX pilots: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boeing-pilots-demand-training-american-airlines-737-max-1.5114538?cmp=newsletter-news-digests-canada-and-world-evening

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The macho camp says that if even one pilot can save the aircraft, all the others who can’t are either badly trained or committing pilot error. And those bodies on the ground, well, they’re just collateral damage.

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Good point.

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