Discussion for article #234970
TPM rebranding? Or will they still be covering news not associated with Indiana and homosexuality? Not that there is anything wrong with either.
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YES. I was quite upset to see the Jay Inslee, governor of Washington state, make it a policy to not reimburse for official trips to Indiana, I voted for Islee, but see the move as political opportunism, rather than a genuine, effective move to support gay rights, Likewise, Rahm Emmanuel used the opportunity to draw business from the state to Chicago, Self-serving all of them. Individuals and private businesses can make the decision to boycott or not – but I do not think this is always the best way to affect positive change. Certainly, cyber-bullying a feckless pizzeria owner does not make for positive optics. I will look at the link you provided to see what better ways there are to support the advance of gay civil rights.
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Whew. I’m not the first to comment. The argument made here against boycotting is the same as against any boycott and, for that matter, sanctions. Sanctions against Russia for Ukrainian war doesn’t change minds; it hurts the people; nobody I know supports this action; it affects the government. Well, exactly. Boycotting and sanctions are ways of influencing government, policy.
What might be an alternative way of influencing this policy. The courts, I suppose. It can be argued, as they say.
Also, quibble, Mike Pence didn’t “vote” for the bill; he signed it.
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What a lame plea. So all the boycotts MLK lead to end segregation was wrong because boycotts hurt people?
Fucking lame.
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Exactly. The conclusion of this piece “boycotts are bad” is truly pathetic.
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Beautifully written and a lovely message of one person’s path (out of Ind).
The writer may still feel connected…but they left and have a job that could be done anywhere. She may not know anyone who supports this, but clearly that isn’t everyone. And the voters of Indiana voted for this joker and he is one of a long line of oafish dolts they’ve elected. Indiana has very xenophobic history, as well as a history of being run by the Klan. The bill is very much part of a big ugly picture.
Despite having many ties to my home state (Ohio) and great sense of loyalty, I know that if that hack Kasich signed something like this, I’d have no trouble supporting a boycott. It’s the kind of pressure that a Republican, even an oafish hack, can understand.
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The bigots passing these laws only understand one thing. Money.
No amount of loudly voiced opinions influenced these neanderthals until the business groups started calling them on it.
Look what’s happened already. Would that have happened without the $$$ to back up the threat?
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The word queer is like the n word to me. It just doesn’t sound right.
I guess a gay person can call themselves whatever they want but I personally wouldn’t use the word queer in serious conversation.
The good people of Indiana need to stand up and be counted, or else they get the bad rap that the religious goons are bringing on them. Sorry, but inaction isn’t cutting it.
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Honestly, I haven’t read but a smattering of the piece. It’s quite moving, and I intend on reading it all as soon as I can.
I would only differ in that this boycott generated the pressure among the business community that owns the politicians to get results.
Only a fool would say that Indiana is a sinkhole. My references to Talibandiana are not intended to be a blanket indictment of everyone in the state. However, there is an element, present in every state (especially my own!) that, unless hit where it hurts 'em (namely, in the wallet) will pander to the ignorant in order to seize and maintain power.
The only recourse we have is to make it clear, not merely in words but in action that gets their attention, that this injustice will not stand.
When a union goes on strike, the members all suffer. They might have a strike fund, but it doesn’t make ends meet. There’s a lot of beans and rice for dinner. But they know that they’re making a sacrifice for the long-term good of everyone, and they’re committed enough to that vision to do hard things. We need more of that spirit in America.
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I guess changing the story’s photo hasn’t helped with clickies.
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I would say that even boycott threats worked quite well in this situation. It appears the pols and hatemongering righties got the message quite quickly. It worked especially well when the anger erupted in a torrent of canceled construction, stalled convention plans and the specter of business leaving the state. Worked well indeed…well enough to say finally: “No more!”
I don’t blame every person in Indiana, of course, but the state’s power structure had to get the message that Republican and Con movements to deny people civil liberties and equal rights will not be tolerated.
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Ashley
I’m a 53 year old Hoosier who has lived here my entire life (and most likely die here as well). I’ve traveled all over the world and America, and I have NEVER been as ashamed of my State as I am right now. The bigotry and racism in Indiana based on this bill, and the actions of a Governor and Legislature that overwhelmingly approved it, is morally and ethically wrong!
I have been writing and posting and doing all that I could to let people know that there are many Indiana Hoosiers who DO NOT agree with what was done with this bill. Yes, they are back-tracking and adjusting the legislation, but sorry, they have lost my vote and my trust by their action in passing this.
I have tried ( and I mean I really and truly tried my VERY best) to not get into many Indiana RFRA Internet arguments, because you and I both know that an online discussion usually (maybe always) we are sitting “across the keyboards” with a bigoted racist, whose prejudiced mind does not have any space left from the three chestnuts bouncing around in heir noggin. Those chestnuts sure take up s lot of space in the
So Indiana Legislative leaders got scared (that they would not be elected) and so they promised to fix the RFRA law by stating they are “inserting language that the new act can’t be used as a defense to refuse services, facilities or public accommodations to members of public on basis of sexual orientation, gender identity”
While it may not be perfect, on the steps of the the Statehouse Indiana Legislative leaders promised to “fix” the RFRA law by stating they are “inserting language that the new act can’t be used as a defense to refuse services, facilities or public accommodations to members of public on basis of sexual orientation, gender identity”
The RFRA bill should have NEVER been passed in the first place, but at least they will try (even though we do not have indications how much support is there for new legislation) fix it before it becomes law on July 1. Now we sit and watch to see which Indiana House and Senate members have the ethics, courage, integrity, and morality to pass the RFRA fix
In the new Indiana RFRA bill it is reported to change the legislation with text that states:
“This chapter DOES NOT AUTHORIZE a provider to refuse to offer or provide services, facilities, use of public accommodations, goods, employment, or housing to any member or members of the general public on the basis of race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or United States military service”
I have to ask, why does it say “does not authorize” instead of “prohibits”?
It still all boils down to a simple fact that the RFRA bill should have NEVER been passed in the first place. Now we sit and watch to see which Indiana House and Senate members have the ethics, courage, integrity, and morality to pass the RFRA fix.
And even their “fix” is an insult. They could have done the proper thing by making sexual orientation and gender preference as a protected class, but instead they wrote the “new” legislation where the gay community still does not have the proper protections. What an insult.
It’s abundantly clear to anyone who thinks about it that citing religion in asserting anti-gay beliefs is prejudice pure and simple—just ask them for evidence of giving divorced people the same litmus test as gay people, and you’ll have proof of cherry-picking religious texts to suit a bias. Where, for instance, is the outcry to let adherents of the Old Testament stone adulterers to death?
Prejudice is universal, but particular prejudices are learned in particular contexts. This is what too many anti-gay Christians seem not to realize—there is no religious reason why the Bible’s anti-gay passages should have come to dominate the hearts and minds of Christian conservatives more than its passages condemning divorce or environmental degradation. Christianity doesn’t require actually withholding services for same-sex weddings any more than it requires stoning adulterers.
This fixation on blocking gay equality is nothing but a rationalization for feelings and beliefs that many people hold quite apart from religious traditions (another fascinating body of research has tied both conservatives and anti-gay sentiment to heightened disgust sensitivity). These attitudes are, in certain circles, culturally learned and socially reinforced—not mandated by the Bible.
There is no doubt that many Christians truly think that by refusing to cater to same-sex marriages, they are simply being faithful to their religious tradition. They’re wrong. But they’re wrong because they lack self-knowledge, not because they are expressing socially unpopular views. And as fun as it may be to publicly sneer at their ignorance and to attribute it to malice, it may be more effective to nudge them toward self-examination, to offer a kind of amnesty for their sins of omission.
And for the record, I am a life-long heterosexual male who has been active in my church since I was 4 years old. My Christianity is based on love and acceptance, not on racism and hatred. My Jesus taught me not to judge anyone, and to love all of what God has given us. So the right-wing idiots who cannot understand that are contemptible in my book. Bigotry, racism, and hatred has no place in the life of a true believer in Christ.
Ashley, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for writing a magnificent article, Very well written, and clearly from the heart. I wish you the best!You are an excellent writer, so I hope to see Indiana flavored articles again. I sent this one to a ton of my friends, and also posted it (with credit, cf course), to my Facebook page. I’ve already had 100% support from the friends that popped in and wrote on it today,
I travel to Indianapolis all the time for work (I actually work part-time in two State Government agencies). If you and a group of your friends ever get to Indy somewhere and you want to raise a toast in the air that we are KINDA making some progress after the change today, then hit me up and the first round is on me.
Ashley, thanks for an award-winning-level article (I would nominate you but I am clueless how to do so) that shares some personal insights from your viewing perspective, and it was done so with wonderful insight that allowed us readers to really empathize with what we felt you are saying.
NOTE: Updated/Edited at 9:51 PM CST due to an erroneous referral.
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Hey I am in Indianapolis and have posted here many times. I will be
honest. I don’t really care about this whole gay thing. My view is mind your own goddamn business. Who cares if gay people wanna get married or what anyone is doing with anyone else of legal consenual age. With the business competition in the world. If I ran a business I would take any business from ANYONE.
So I thank Ashley for pointing out alot and I mean alot of people especially
in Indy are PO’d about this bill. Very few Hoosiers want Pence to turn Indiana into ground zero in a cultural war. But he has done that.
Outsider’s wonder how this has happened. It’s been coming for awhile. First in 2011 the Legislature got a Super majority. First thing the GOP did was unveil the Right to work bill which was never ever brought up in the 2010 campaign. I protested that as I work in a union. We have had issues and for most part everyone has paid their dues. So the GOP arrogantly passed this bill after a long protest in 2012.
This kinda arrogance has prevailed. As for Pence his district was setup for easy win time after time. He is just a rightwinger who seeked out the teabaggers. When Pence won the Gov Romney carried Indiana easily but Pence won by a small margin over an under funded Dem candidate. So alot of ticket splitting went on in the voting booth. You get the idea. Glenda Ritz won as School superintendent over the GOP slated candidate screwing up the Gov plans. She got more votes then Pence. Yet the legislature has been trying to take all her power away and give it to the GOV letting him pick a school superintendent. Until the Religious freedom bill this issue had lingered to the point Ritz has been urged to run against Pence.
This gay marriage was debated and an amendment against same sex marriage was pushed hard last year and failed after Supreme court ruling. So as you see this is how we got here. The right were looking for away to stick it to the people who blocked that amendment.
Ashley is right. Pence didn’t care about money. Because they were warned big time by the opposition to the freedom bill. Business leaders all told the legislature and Pence: DON’T DO THIS!!! Indiana GOP arrogance pure and simple. This is what happens without another party to check the super majority of one party. Indianapolis has worked hard to be a big time player through sports. Pence has helped kill these ambitious over his and other GOP leaders arrogance.
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The idea that there isn’t a substantial portion of the Indiana electorate that favors this bill is just not supported by facts. The author may not have met them, or more likely they just don’t say it unless they’re sure of their audience, doesn’t take away from the fact that someone voted for Pence and those homophobic legislators. I’m sorry if opponents of the bill may also be hurt by a boycott, but maybe they can use it to help elect officials who don’t nakedly exploit hatred for political gain. Blog posts won’t change the realities, money will.
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There has been no poll of Indiana voters on the RFRA law. I seriously doubt that a majority of the voters are in favor of it. Pence barely won his race against an under-funded candidate two years ago and the Indiana GOP has done a series of increasingly wacko things in the past two years. These are things that were NEVER brought up during the 2012 campaign, so there is in fact no real evidence that a substantial portion of the electorate who agree with their current actions After the events of this week, I would guess it might even be a majority against them. The Democrats in Indiana better capitalize on this moment.
Polling data would be of interest, however, given a multitude of factors indicative of the Indiana electorate, I’d make a poorly educated guess that while it may not in fact be a majority that’s in favor, it’s nonetheless probably a substantial portion — at least the typical 20-25% of balls-out snot-sucking Christian Taliban John Bircher loonies we see in just about every population sample we might take in any state, and could well be much more.
Unfortunately, conservatives understand mostly one sound: MONEY. And such is only superseded by one other sound: the drums of WAR.
We will still boycott Indiana.