If I had to guess, I would say that Flynn was probably compromised by the Russians shortly after he became director of the DIA. Whether Putin got to him because Flynn started to actually believe that the Russians had a better approach to Islam than the Obama administration, or Putin simply bought him off, is unclear. What does appear clear to me is that, by the time Obama fired him, he was already a foreign agent.
After he was fired, he simply sold any and all of his talents, and probably any information he had (including classified information) to the highest bidders. He clearly had absolutely no regard for the safety or security of the U.S. by the time he started working for Trump.
Whatever “deal” Mueller has to offer should not include full immunity since Flynn is likely guilty of crimes that at least approach high treason. Letting him off with a lessor sentence for handing over the Trump family (as well as a few others in his cabinet) might be worth it, but Flynn definitely deserves at least a few years in jail. It would be a terrible precedent to allow him to walk free after what he’s done.
Kind of an interesting coincidence that the Russian-compromised general ended up an early supporter of the Russian-compromised candidate, no?
Just the kind of coincidence that takes a shit-ton of planning
Besides the things Flynn was involved with himself, I think it’s very possible Trump would have tried to impress him by blabbing about all the dirty stuff the Trump side did over the years. BTW Trump’s ethics lawyer just resigned. All very routine, he says, it was always the plan to hang out about this long and then spend more time with the family former law firm. Nothing to see here, move along. Just another manic Tuesday.
It is hard to guess, but to put my own guess out there, I would say he became a prime target immediately after being fired by Obama. He was a hothead, and known to bear deep grievances of perceived wrongs against him…and he was out of a job. That makes for fertile ground for the right agent trying to subvert him. They could make him “whole” financially with relative ease, and also provide him an avenue to get even and right those perceived wrongs.
But here is the rather interesting piece from Tierney’s article that I have been wrestling with for awhile.
“Flynn is not among the campaign officials identified in court documents about campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos’ own Russia-related contacts. Another foreign policy adviser Carter Page, in testimony to the House Intel Committee, denied communications with Flynn, though he did tell other campaign officials about a 2016 trip to Moscow. And The Atlantic’s report on private messages between Donald Trump Jr. and Wikileaks’ Twitter account did not include Flynn among the campaign officials Trump Jr. informed about his Wikileaks contacts.”
That’s all rather striking for how they are all reporting they did NOT include him in the loop on any of this. Flynn was Trump’s foreign policy guy. He was at his side nearly every day and night. He was the one doing the intelligence briefings with Trump. He was busy developing “back channel” communication paths with Kushner and Bannon to Moscow in order to stay off the IC grid. He was trying to cut deals to lift sanctions on Russia. He was having “peace plans” for Ukraine, developed by the Russians, hand delivered to him.
But nobody else involved ever communicated with him??
This is where Sessions should start really sweating. Because there are only two scenarios where the above happened, and only one is belivable. The first is, that Flynn was a lone wolf gone rogue, and nobody knew a thing that he was doing…it was all him, on his own. That doesn’t pass any sort of test, so I think we can exclude that possibility. The second option is they were trying to build a wall of deniability/accountability between the campaign and Trump…with Flynn being the secret door. Which means that Sessions, to which all of these people nominally reported, had to be briefing Flynn on what they were doing, so Flynn could do the things he did, and inform Donald. (Though I suspect the “wall” was more like a badly torn screen door, and lots of people were telling Donald all sorts of things, in order to receive his praise. Remember, nobody in the campaign trusted anyone else in the campaign…Trump thrives on backstabbing among his underlings).
This doesn’t discount the possibility that the administration started building the “lone wolf” narrative concerning Flynn early on, for precisely this moment. And a big part of me hopes they did. Because there is zero chance that all of these idiots, all looking to save their own skin, is going to be able to stick to any sort of consistent story on Flynn. Once Mueller unravels any such story line, he has the whole cabal on Obstruction, with the very attempt to concoct a false narrative like that being some of the most damning evidence to put in front of a jury.
I don’t think Mueller would make a deal with Flynn (much of which will be to save his son and some of which will be to reduce, but probably not eliminate, his own jail time) just to get to Junior or Kushner, and probably not just to Sessions. He’s already got quite a lot on them. I really believe that any deal will include Trump, and probably Pence. There are signs that point in their direction, especially Trump for knowledge and approval and obstruction, and Pence for knowledge and at least obfuscation. But Flynn was in the middle of it all and could really tie things together. I hope he kept notes, too.
It underlines the “silo theory” that the Trumpers have been pushing since day 1, and which most of the press willingly ran with (still runs with) regarding all of this. Its all separate, discrete coincidences, none of which can be related to the others in way, shape or form.
Of course, if you discard that theory, then it becomes quite clear that the entire campaign and nearly everyone in Trump’s orbit was deeply committed to working with Russia. From “the coffee guy” all the way up to the President. And suddenly its not “how interesting a discrete, separate tree is growing here”…because you are standing deep in a forest, with trees all around you, because that is where trees grow.
@rickjones I would guess that Mueller would be quite interested in making a deal with Flynn for Kushner (Junior not so much), because any deal will involve Flynn serving jail time. Complete immunity was never on the table, and still isn’t. But Mueller isn’t making any deals for partial information. He wants EVERYTHING Flynn has. Which means everyone should be looking over their shoulders.
I want these guys to (1) flip, and (2) rot in prison for decades; and (3) and count themselves lucky their heads are not tumbling into wicker baskets… The enormity of their crimes, accomplished and intended, has no precedent in American history.
On no account would it be acceptable for Trump to resign in return for immunity for himself and his vile spawn.
My gut tells me that Mueller wants to nail these fuckers.
[quote=“daveyjones64, post:8, topic:65526”]
Of course, if you discard that theory, then it becomes quite clear that the entire campaign and nearly everyone in Trump’s orbit was deeply committed to working with Russia.
[/quote]A good starting point - anyone who “forgot” about contacts with Russia, failed to disclose contacts with Russia, and/or denied contacts with Russia - is eyeballs deep in it.
It sounds like he is leaving the position, in order to be a more full throated surrogate for Trump as a private citizen,without any of those nasty governmental ethics restraints placed upon him. He is already lining up to take shots at Schaub on his way out.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361912-white-house-ethics-lawyer-resigns
I wonder if Trump still thinks that Flynn is “a very good person,” as he stated in Lester Holt interview.
This is a low life traitor and a danger to America. He is putting American lives at risk. He is a cheap two-bit corner whore who will do anything for money. Should be locked up in a military paddock.
As illustrated in the Washington Post’s recent article Guns and Religion, How the American (Republican) Right found allies in Russia (Putin), the Trump campaign and administration have been just a part of a larger realignment involving the religious right and the NRA, among others in American social conservatism, in an alliance with anti-liberal Putin-ism. It is particularly unsurprising that Pence, the embodiment of extreme social conservatism in our politics, ended up being the Manafort-ian candidate. Flynn’s flipping would provide an initial path toward exposing Pence’s so-far denied involvement in all this.
Compromised in terms of coercion or by being aligned with Russian interests? Personally, I think the man flipped a cog at some point in the past based on the behavior that has been reported that ended with him leaving the the DIA. That put him into the sights of the Russians and they worked on that. He doesn’t seemed so much as compromised as groomed.
I agree that the lack of reporting on Flynn communicating with others might be a sign that he didn’t do so officially (either because he was nuts or because of plausible deniability). But it could also be tradecraft, either on the part of the campaign and Flynn or on the part of Mueller. If the first, Flynn was so closely involved and personally present that there was little need to tell him things by email or Twitter or any other written means – handwritten notes or conversations would do fine. If the second, remember all the things left out of the indictments. Mueller has no reason to show any more of his hand than he absolutely needs to. Once something is disclosed, it loses its value both as a bargaining chip and as a perjury trap.
Trump, Pence, Kushner, Jr., are the obvious loathsome targets but the Trump clan are just greedy grifters and Pence is a dimwit.
I want those who knew, and know, they are wrecking our whole Constitution to be buried alive: McConnell, Ryan, and especially that vile little gremlin bastard Sessions.
I don’t think Sessions walks at the end of the day, particularly if Flynn is giving up the goods on everyone. A cooperating Flynn moves things up the ladder significantly, and could implicate pretty much every senior person in the inner circle. That means Sessions in particular. Sessions has already perjured himself under oath. Its very likely that evidence/testimony Flynn would have to offer opens Sessions up to even more perjury charges.
This guy is clearly flying his own plane, but just the facts that his world involved high level contacts with very suspicious motives in Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Syria (probably) and the significantly operational role as National security advisor for Trumpk—whew! He’s more toxic than a Chernobyl cess-pool! Breaking the Gotti thugs was only the learning curve for Mueller when it comes to this one. He’s already in stripes for taking foreign money as a former military officer. And if ever there’s a reason for Spanish Inquisition tactics it’s in the wrinkles of his grey matter. Stretch him out, turn up the opera—see what he’s got!!
What I should have said is that Flynn can topple all the Johnny-come-lately group in the WH but I want the ones who have engineered this debacle,the ones who set the stage and have aided and abetted the destruction of our government.
I want the ones who were undermining before DT and, if we’re not careful, will still be there after DT.
Even if all those in the inner circle go to jail, if McConnell, Ryan, et al. are still in power we are still phucked.