Discussion: 5 Points On The Threat Of Trump Issuing Pardons In The Russia Probe

Actually, the New American Oxford Dictionary says ‘lynchpin’ is an acceptable spelling. I had to look it up because I’ve always spelled it with an ‘i.’

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I think the fact that people who are pardoned lose their ability to invoke the 5th may slow the rush to pardons.

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Trump will pardon anyone who plans to rat him out. Period. End of story.

The key for Mueller is to ensure those pardoned by the criminal Trump to have parallel state law indictments. This will ensure the pardons hurt Trump, since it’s an obvious effort to obstruct justice, and those “pardoned” still can go to prison.

While the current Trump GOP Congress has zero intention of impeaching Trump, we all hope that a future Democratic run Congress in 2019 can remove Don the Con from office.

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Pardons apply retroactively, so perjury charges can still be levied on those already pardoned who lie under oath. Thus, a criminal “president” like Don the Con can’t completely escape justice.

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While this is probably correct, when Kushner testifies he can’t invoke the 5th Amendment. Moreover, if Mueller is smart, he is coordinating with NY AG Schneiderman so state law charges can be filed against Kushner the day after any presidential pardon. That’ll snare crooks like Kushner.

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While you’re correct the GOP as of now will do nothing to stop Trump, a Democratic wave election in 2018 could change their minds in 2019 that Trump needs to go before they are wiped out in 2020. This is one of the key reasons why the 2018 election is so important for our freedom and future as a nation.

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Anyone who accepts a presidential pardon is admitting guilt to a crime.

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All the original speculation concluded that the Republican that started the oppo research project was Jeb Bush, but it was not. Washington Free Beacon owner Paul Singer was a Rubio supporter, and finally admitted he was the source. He hired Fusion GPS, but dropped the contract after it was inevitable trump would be the nominee.

Fusion GPS then offered the research to the Clinton campaign via their lawyer, and subsequently hired Steele, who compiled the dossier.

So the project was initiated by a billionaire Rubio supporter, but the dossier itself was created for the Clinton campaign.

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I have this image in my mind of Trump pardoning someone, that person refusing to give information and being held in contempt, Trump pardoning him for that, and so on, ad infinitum. I assume that obstruction charges are standing in the way of that. Eventually, even dead-enders would have to notice something was amiss.
As the investigation goes on, it seems to me that the real danger is that Congress realizes the amount of dirt that is likely to come out via the investigation of the hacked emails and their use of Russian assets themselves. Mueller has been several steps ahead of the White House so far; I just hope he is that far ahead of the
GOP as well. So far, leaks have been strategic, so I assume that the investiation inside the RNC will also proceed that way.

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1 small criticism:
Never had a “company” computer when I worked for Treasury. And neither did this agent have a“company” phone.
If he had outside biz (legal but unlikely) we would not know about his smack talk.
Prof Tim Snyder in his 20 rules for resistance “On Tyranny” says to be careful with our words

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The GOP probably has a lot to hide but expect Mueller to find cooperating witnesses to help reveal whether Trump’s treasonous conspiracy with Russia extends to others in the RNC.

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While I am sure that Trump will eventually try pardoning people, it will not work if he and the GOP allow an election in 2018.

The ironic thing that people don’t seem to get is that Trump has actually unified the entire political spectrum between the left and center right. They will CRUSH him and the GOP if things continue along the path they appear to be heading. A large number of pardons later this year paired with a compliant congress should be a wakeup call that some sort of ‘emergency’ is going to occur before November.

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Considering Flynn did plead guilty, agreed to cooperate and has other charges likely pending if he reneges I would presume he has given up the goods.

Flynn is not sitting there being the stoic and loyal stooge. Mueller did not corral Flynn and then put him as a resource on the back burner. Since Mueller is so good at controlling leaks, even if Flynn had an ace card to coerce Trump into a pardon, at this point, Trump cannot know if it is still in the sleeve or has been used.

With the charges being as light as they have been, I think Flynn dealt his card already to Mueller.

Nothing has moved Trump in the court room yet, he cannot even step up and begin disputing anything as a legal process at this time. Trump has been trying to sway opinion, as if he is going for jury nullification, but it doesn’t track well. If he pardons Flynn, it looks like fear and obstruction are the motivations. If he fires Mueller, same thing. Trumps image will take a huge hit and I suspect that will be even with some of his base.

It is now reported that the White House will take the tack of calling Flynn a liar, period. It sure does seem that Trump is out of any reasonable and productive option.

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2 points why Trump’s threat is pointless

1 - They are focusing not just on Federal crimes but State crimes for which there is no pardon.
2 - State jails are way worse than Federal jails.

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“Trump’s image will take a huge hit”
Thanks for the morning laugh.
I can’t imagine what’s left of his image that can be hit, but I’m willing to bet he can go lower than any of us consider possible.

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We held elections in 1864, 1916, 1932, and 1944.

The Constitution makes no provision for putting off elections. I don’t believe the GOP could do anything more likely to bring Americans to the streets than to try to postpone the midterm election.

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You know that, and I know that, and doubtless @raincntry knows that, but as noted above, we rub our synapses. The not-so-fine legal point will be lost on the vast majority of Americans who think that a presidential pardon marks the end of this distasteful and repetitive business.

And on another point:
"“he runs the risk of appearing to try to influence, intimidate or curry favor—or any of the above—with a witness, and that might constitute impeding, interference or obstruction.” Since when has any of that even given him pause?

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True, but what he doesn’t know yet is who has ratted him out already. He won’t pardon anyone who did that unless he can convince himself that the ratting out was somehow coerced and possible to legally nullify.

A lot of damn cards started tumbling down when they realized Mueller had transition email.

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No kidding. At some point, he might get a glimmer that some people do not actually like him. Imagine the horrors.

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Well said. The tide has turned and it is all downhill for the administration and the party. There is no magic wand to undo the damage, to wipe away the traitorous behavior. Hanging on to that tattered, shrinking base is all they have left and it is rancid and decomposing. Not a good outlook.

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