Autopsy: Unusual Bone Breakages Deepen Mystery Of Epstein’s Death

The Onion’s theory…

“These correctional officers failed to perform their routine check on Mr. Epstein Saturday morning because they were sidetracked by a very naughty monkey that snatched their jangling keys, causing them to abandon their posts and spend several hours chasing the little devil around the prison,” said a Justice Department spokesman, adding that the employees falsified multiple reports claiming that they had monitored Epstein when, in fact, they made several trips to a nearby market, buying bananas to use to capture the elusive monkey.

@rascal_crone

At press time, Epstein’s autopsy had been ruled inconclusive while the coroner raced down the street, jumping repeatedly in a futile effort to snatch the files back from a mischievous crow that had stolen them from an open window and was flying just out of reach.

3 Likes

Funny. Every few weeks I hear people say “something slipped with Trump. He’s really sounding cray-cray now.”

1 Like

I always like a good question. But, we do not have the luxury of being the direct inquisitor with ability to have access to the most of the facts. So, we have to ask the inquisitors to ask some questions.

For ourselves, as indirect parties in all this, that unfortunately means using only the facts available for our questions for this, which will always be much more limited than those with direct access. That simple fact opens up a lot more possibilities for theories.

But, this generalized skepticism can serve a useful purpose. It forces the inquisitors to go to work, which is a good thing. Because whatever happened, Epstein should have faced his accusers and he died prematurely to that event and someone should answer to that.

And, considering the possibility of a nefarious event is not far off the mark from consideration. For example, Turkey offered up evidence that Khashoggi was murdered in the Saudi Embassy. That is, there are powerful murderous thugs out there that murder for political and/or personal reasons and try to keep it hidden. I am not saying that happened with Epstein. I am saying that it is a false assertion that it could not happen. Counter examples exist. I would also say that it is a false assertion that in the world without skepticism that the Epstein death would receive the same level of scrutiny.

The real question in going after a conspiracy theorist is what happens when the evidence is revealed. No amount of evidence convinces a person locked into a conspiracy world.

5 Likes

Nope.

I am doing something lawyers (being advocates for one side) are trained not to do – seeking truth from the facts.

No wonder that’s alien to you.

As a rule, I ignore conspiracy theorists – or, as happens here from time to time, I mock them. (In general, Josh’s commentators tend to be more sophists than conspiracists, YMMV.)

The problem with “generalized skepticism” is that it easily degenerates into sophistry or sensationalism.

So (naturally) we are saved by baseball analogies.

Cervantes’ embarrassing sophistry (which, being miseducated he confused with logic and even language) is a factual problem: the data shows that Epstein has a roughly one in three chance of having fractured his own, elderly hyoid (the word of the day!) in hanging himself. Going from the slender fact that 2/3s of the time that would indicate murder not a suicide is factually unsound (viz, it’s not an error in logic). The proper analogy is when a guy hitting .333 comes to bat with first base open. Depending on the situation, it’s wise to walk him so you can pitch to the guy hitting .220 (especially if the good hitter is slow and the weak batter hits ground balls). That’s true even though the good hitter will fail two-thirds of the time: thus, baseball teaches proper thinking techniques.

Txlawyer’s mistake, in baseball terms, is trying to score a situation, assuming a double play. You can’t do that. There are reasons.

Suppose a runner on first and a ball grounded to shortstop. He throws to first to gt the batter, but the runner slides into second under the tag, That’s a fielders’ choice, not an error. The shortstop made a whopping mistake (Stengel would have embarrassed him; McGraw might have socked him), but – it’s not an error. He made the out at first. The scorer cannot assume a double play.

Take an egregious example – same situation, runner on first with less than two outs: a ball hit to the second baseman, who bobbles it instead of feeding the shortstop at second. So when the second baseman does get a grip, he throws to first – again, getting the batter but missing what should have been an easy first out. That’s not an error, for the same reason: the batter was out at first. You cannot assume a double play.

Txlawyer is insisting that because Epstein was a probable suicide (cuz of circumstances and temperament, not to mention a prior attempt), therefore any skeptical analysis of surrounding factors “posits” a conspiracy.

That assumes a double play.

I just read a story on the autopsy, and it went into some detail about broken bones in the throat. But neither that story, nor any I have seen in the last couple of days mentioned what I remember seeing on day One…that he was in cardiac arrest when they brought him into the hospital. Has anyone heard that too, or wondered how you can hang for 3 hours but still be in cardiac arrest?

5 Likes

Yep, that first day they definitely said he was in cardiac arrest after the “hanging” attempt. This whole thing seems to be a moving target and hopefully we’ll find out the truth at some point.

5 Likes

Um… fellas: I think that just means he was dying.

Q. What was the cause of death?

A. Heart failure.

Q. Natural causes, then?

A. Yeah – he had a heart attack while he was being strangled.

Didn’t you guys read joke books when you were kids?

Shh - I’m trying to run them to @mattinpa as fast as I can so he can break the story

4 Likes

Something I’ve not heard mentioned yet: officially, someone is not dead until a physician says they are. Nurses and EMTs cannot make the call. Unless someone is a DNR, someone whose heart is not beating (cardiac arrest) will be on the receiving end of CPR, etc., until the ER doc ends it. (The exception, found in long-term care where I work, is an expected, natural death, where, at least in our facility, two nurses fail to find a heartbeat, and call the physician, who gives a verbal ok to release the body to the funeral home. I believe hospice has similar protocols.)
So what I would like to know was whether the EMTs thought he was gone and transported him because they had to, or whether he was still hanging on. (Bad pun. Sorry.)
I have seen dozens of dead bodies in my life, and never looked at a corpse and not known immediately that the person was dead.

8 Likes

I don’t deal with dead bodies, so don’t have your experience.
There were a couple photos of Epstein on a gurney being transported to the EMT vehicle from prison and it looked like they were working on him. Maybe cardiac arrest was something just thrown out there so they could get him transported and have him declared dead. Must have been a terrible job for the EMT’s especially if he wasn’t alive.
I hope we do find out what actually happened.

3 Likes

Yeah I don’t really think that’s likely.

6 Likes

Yeah, I saw the photos. Not enough detail for me to even guess. I have never seen a body that had suffered a violent death, and very few that were Epstein’s age. In our geriatric population, both lividity and rigor set in pretty quickly. Just a few days ago I was washing up a body whose owner had departed within the hour, and lividity was already well established.

4 Likes

Reading that article from Forbes that said an attorney had seen a young woman in the locked room with him for two hours and his attorneys coming and being with him 8 hours a day so he wouldn’t have to sit in his cell. These are two things I hadn’t seen anywhere else, so there might be a small chance we’ll find out.
What if the two guards on leave get fired and then are pissed off and decide to spill the beans on what goes on there. It sounds like a worse then hellish place.
I think this may be where Paul Manafort is spending time.

2 Likes

You have a point - the more people there are who know things, the more likely that we will know those things eventually.

I read that too.

2 Likes

Epstein’s lawyers have to know a lot about what goes on in that hell hole since it sounds like some of them were there a lot. Maybe they’re holding back for the moment. Think I read they had an independent coroner with the official one, so I’m sure they want to know the truth. And, they probably know, without a doubt, if he was attacked on that first incident, where there was bruising, rope marks, take your pick, but I bet they know.

4 Likes

That’s not the question, now is it?

Yeah I would suspect that they either know or have a very good idea.

2 Likes

OME did not stay quiet.

Also you:

You again:

Etc.:

ETA: And in this context, “posit” means “to assume or affirm the existence of,” or “to propose as an explanation.”

1 Like
Comments are now Members-Only
Join the discussion Free options available