Discussion: Clinton Slams Sanders' Free College Idea By Invoking Donald Trump's Kids

Me: Disagree all you like with the wording of the ‘Trump’s kids’ line she used.

We are in agreement. I thought it a throwaway line-- more to try to prime the well for the General Election-- in the case that Trump doesn’t flameout.

Fact is, Bernie ‘has to go big’ with anything he presents. He has alot of ground to cover-- and make up-- in a short period of time. He needs to get as many ideas to the low-info/not-yet-paying-attention voters ASAP.

So, I don’t fault him for using ‘free college for all’ in a general sense.
But I’m not sure who’s buying it as something that can happen with an ®-controlled House.
It may be 2022 or 2024 before (D)s can assert truly progressive ideas politically.
And alot-- ALOT– has to go right between now and then.

jw1

First of all, I know you didn’t write this headline, but I don’t think she “slammed” Bernie; I don’t see her comments as trying to score points either. She just disagreed, and explained how she sees it. Of course the way these things are judged, I guess they’re all looking for points in one way or the other.

Slamming would have gone something like this:

“You see, folks? This guy is so hopelessly out of touch that he wants Donald Trump’s kids to get ‘free stuff.’ Now, is THAT where you want your tax money to go?”

Having watched the last 3 GOP “debates” I know ‘slamming’ when I hear it. If HRC honestly disagrees, shouldn’t she respectfully explain the way she sees it? I think that’s what she did.

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BC-- HRC has had the experience of having what could have been the first attempt at moving the ball down the field-- toward single-payer healthcare-- flung back at her in 1993.

That it took Romneycare-- a concept from The Heritage Foundation-- to give muscle to getting the ACA through a split Senate in 2012-- should be enough for we political-junkies to give her the benefit of the doubt for her opinion of what is-- and isn’t possible today-- and likely at least the next 5 years or so.

I realize the art of ‘selling to voters’ during a campaign differs starkly from the realities of a post-election administration’s capacity to effect those promises. That HRC is keeping her feet-on-the-ground and not promising the near-impossible means she may be willing to leverage her current position in the polls to attract those voters who are centrists and possibly those remaining sane ® voters that won’t or can’t vote for the RWNJ candidate.

In effect-- in the long view-- she may possibly be assisting down-ticket races that could get a coattail effect from her gaining those voters early-on-- with rationality. And that? Might have the effect of counteracting gerrymandering in advance of the 2020 census-taking and ensuing redistricting.

And sure, that’s quite a few ‘ifs’. But if there’s one candidate out there who has a wealth of experience in almost every position espoused-- we both know who it is.

And that’s why I’m a bit upset at the parsing going on upthread-- over the steps actually required to achieve the possible-- versus the conceptual.

jw1

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Yes, those are a lot of ‘ifs,’ but you are correct. In so many words, you’ve given a pretty good summation of why I am a fan of Hillary’s. Do I prefer Sen. Sanders’ ideology over Clinton’s stated and past ideology? – Yes. But I’m usually very pragmatic in my long-term thinking. I want progress, not sideshow arguing. I’m not at all suggesting that a Pres. Sanders would partake in sideshow arguing – but I strongly feel that a Pres. Sanders would produce one hell of a lot of it from the Republicans and even some Blue Dog Democrats. I love Bernie Sanders and what he stands for – he is much closer to my own ideology. But I’m 50yo now and have watched politics since I was in High School. In many ways, I am even more ideologically-charged than before, but my whole thrust has slowly shifted to realizing patience is a virtue and practicality and diplomacy go a very long way. I’ve come to respect and very much appreciate these qualities in Hillary Clinton.

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Well, if Trump paid REALLY HIGH TAXES to support public colleges, then his kids would have the right to attend ‘free’ wouldn’t they? Tax the Rich- yes! But let them have something back if they want it. More likely rich people send their kids to private schools, anyway.

I read that the boomers are in over their heads with collage debt, this is my generation, and I think avoiding the draft? Then again I think was the education worth it? I have to think not. If the money one can make from the education one received can not pay for that education then economically it wasn’t feasible.

So if Hillary is really serious about this, weather Trump’s kid get to go or not is last on the list of things that need to be looked at.

The tail end of the Boomers generation (born between 1945-1960)are the ones who had some debt from education. But it’s the younger generations that really are. Those in their 30’s & 40’s. When I started college my 1st semester cost $250. By 1990 that cost was $4000/semester. Now today it is more like $8000/semester at my alma mater. And at the same time state support of my university dropped from 45% of the operating budget in 1968 to less than 7% today and republicans have controlled our state legislature that whole time.
Education is the best way we have to get out of poverty. Which person would a company hire. The guy with a high school education or the one with a college education? Of course it depends on the job but I think the company will choose the guy with the education. My son did not want to go to college. He had to struggle to learn the electrician’s trade. But to his credit he taught himself and now has begun his own electrical contracting company. It is tiny but it’s a start. He’s just barely making it. Had he gotten a college education I think his road would have been easier.

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I’ll bet, the majority of the nation has shifted their view on gay marriage or gay anything, just gay.
Why is Hillary different, Obama changed.
I’ve changed, if only to realize the plight of the gays, I don’t recall ever actually being against their rights.
And, I’ll bet you socialist dollars that Bernie has evolved in many ways on many subjects. This is as normal of a human process as aging. Getting wiser, it’s part of the package.

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As with health care the US lags far behind as more and more 1st world countries are providing free University education through usually Master Degrees.

I don’t agree with conflating anything Trump onto our candidates but I get the politics of it. Hillary wasn’t exactly appealing to the deep thinkers with that one, she was making a cheap point while not totally agreeing with Sanders.
I personally don’t have a problem with some expense for a college education, not the ridiculous plan that we have now but something that helps to afford the system without for profit gouging.
If a kid has to work some while getting an education, then they are actually learning two important things. The value of education and where they might end up without it and the initiative to work and pay your own way and what that effort brings.

I’m a drywaller originally and so was my father, there is nothing harder in the trades and that inspired me to grow and become a general contractor. My son as well as my nephews learned that they didn’t want to be drywallers by working with us, so they went to college and or chose work that they liked as opposed to had to do.

College isn’t the only way but it certainly doesn’t hurt and can only open the youthful mind up to many opportunities.
I served an apprenticeship and have made the most of it, I have no complaints but truthfully wish while looking back that I had gotten more education.

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Oh I agree a good education is needed.

I am not sure that our present system is providing that education in a cost effective manner.
When you say $8000 a semester is that is that room and board also? Should we pick up that tab too?

My kids have degrees and or are working on one or another. Their debts have been paid off and are moving on in their lives. I certainly did not have the money to pay for their education, so they have had to do it on their own. So I know it can be done.

I am not against public help, I just would like to talk about what is reasonable, and how to deliver this education; the present system seems out dated if you ask me.

How does a person from Smallsville USA afford the room and board to attend a school? How can you ask them to help pay for a student who lives in a big city with 3, 4 or more options for higher education, when their kids can not afford the room and board?

Certainly Trump’s supporters don’t think they should have to pay for them.

Of course she wouldn’t support Bernie’s plan his proposal would affect banks and loan servicers who are some of her biggest campaign donors not to mention she probably has associated investment’s as well.

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And those corporate tax cuts and the equivalent give-aways to the 0.01 in other ways amounts to American tax payers giving Trump’s kids free college and the kids of a large number of other wealthy free-loaders as well! Most Americans are not getting full value for the work they do and the taxes they pay because our American economy loses so much of its created wealth to untaxed and uninvested offshore/overseas hoarding. The college tuition money for America’s children is stashed away in secretive Cayman Island and Luxembourg strongboxes!

Except that trumps kids are grown but I get what you are saying.

$250 a semester in 1978 is $1,709.38 in 2015 money.

Still far short of typical state university tuition today of course.

Sorry, Ms. Goldwater Girl, bit there is a real simple answer for that to shut you up on this subject. The Answer? Restore the tax rate of pre-Reagan years and Mr. Trump will pay for his brats AND for several hundred more students. But being a DLC member, you are so inured to not taxing the wealthy and corporations that you never even consider raising taxes.

1968, not 1978. For others who want to play along,

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Sorry mr…whoever you are, but the President doesn’t make tax law, and even if that were the case, pre-Reagan tax rates aren’t coming back any time soon.

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To paraphrase what I thought was one of Sec. Clinton’s smarter statements, you don’t change hearts and minds. You change laws and allocations of resources. I think a free college education is a thoughtful, sensible, conservative idea. But you shouldn’t need a college degree to afford your own apartment. I think we’re already seeing diminishing returns from everyone just “knowing” you need a college education to get anywhere in life. I’d like to see laws changed and resources allocated so that anyone who works full time can afford their own apartment, regardless of education. Once that became the new conventional wisdom, the market would do a much better job sorting itself out.

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